Mendak

Jean · 17th May 2015, 01:59 PM

Hello Alan,
Very nice and rare collection!
Although this subject was already raised in the past, could you please show us some representative and rare specimens of mendaks from Central Java (Yogyakarta and Solo), Cirebon/ West Java, East Java, and Madura as the distinction is not clear for most of us.
Thank you and best regards

A. G. Maisey · 17th May 2015, 10:39 PM

Not clear to me either Jean.

Nor to anybody I know in Solo.

My personal opinion is that whilst some things are pretty obvious and known to virtually everybody, such as the distinction between Jawa and Madura, just about everything else is up for grabs.

In fact, going back a long time to when I got my first few keris, keris that had been collected mostly in Batavia (Jakarta) in about 1920, most of those keris had no mendak at all. I know that some mendak patterns are accepted by many people as Jogja, and others as Solo, but then you get the situation where you find something that has previously been identified as Solo being identified as Jogja, because it is on a big Jogja jejeran, rather than a small one.

For as long as I've been going to Indonesia, which is 40 odd years, the distinction that seems to be most usually made is between Central Jawa and East Jawa/Madura.

East Jawa Madura are generally a little bit bigger, and are hollow, Central Jawa are fabricated and a little bit smaller, but in practice it seems as if the general rule for use is that if the mendak fits the jejeran, and looks OK, that is what gets used.

If we look at keris that we know to be pre-1700, what we find is that a lot of these keris do not have mendak, even though they would have been collected as virtually new keris. Others of these early keris have a quite high fabricated mendak, with some applied ornamentation.

Then we have the rare iron mendaks, which I think probably belonged with the North Coast iron seluts, and I believe are a direct continuation of the metuk which preceded the mendak.

Sorry Jean, I cannot answer your question.

Actually these mendak are not really a collection, they're just a few of the more interesting ones I have, I've probably got about 500 mendak and wewer, all stored in bottles.

S.Workman · 18th May 2015, 10:06 AM

Perhaps this is a foolish question, but what lies behind the rarity of these objects? Have they been ignored, or unremarked by collectors, until now? They don't seem all that fragile so they ought to survive, are they being sold to jewelers when the family hits dire straits? What do you say?

A. G. Maisey · 18th May 2015, 01:55 PM

The new ones are not rare, and you can buy really cheap ones for almost nothing --- good ones cost, sometimes cost big when we are talking top quality and premium materials, but the old ones seem to have been used up.

By "used up" I mean that they have broken, or been lost and the quite small existing stock has been re-distributed to existing old keris. I've often had old keris in my hands that didn't have any mendak, or had a junk modern one, or if an old mendak was fitted, it was crushed and broken.

Over a 50 year period I've simply bought every halfway decent old mendak that I've come across. That's why I have so many. Not "collection", more "accumulation".

Many old mendak were pretty fragile. The iron ones, cast bronze and cast brass were not fragile, but there were very few of those, however, the fabricated ones would in many cases have crushed and broken if the blade hit a bone when thrust. The hollow East Jawa/Madura ones you can crush between your fingers.

asomotif · 18th May 2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Over a 50 year period I've simply bought every halfway decent old mendak that I've come across.

And here we are, wondering why old mendak are scarce

Nive collection btw.
Allways good to bring this under the attention.
I really dislike the cheap mendak that are sometimes seen on nice old keris.

Best regards,
Willem

A. G. Maisey · 18th May 2015, 11:05 PM

But there is a reason for those cheapy mendak Willem.

A good brand new mendak can cost more than a pretty reasonable sort of keris.

A good old mendak can cost more than a decent keris.

It wasn't always like this, but it is now.

If somebody in the keris trade in Indonesia wants to sell a good keris, and by keris, I mean the keris itself, not including the dress, they limit their buyers by dressing that keris in premium component parts, so they either sell the blade bare, or use cheap, low quality dress.

This permits the new owner to dress the keris as he sees fit. However, if he wishes to use older dress on the old keris, he may take quite some time to assemble the quality parts he needs, and one of the more difficult parts is the mendak.

ariel · 19th May 2015, 12:24 AM

What kind of mendak would fit a Pathani Tajong with a Swaasa cover for the "nose"?
Are those available? How much would they cost?

17th May 2015, 01:59 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Very nice and rare collection! Although this subject was already raised in the past, could you please show us some representative and rare specimens of mendaks from Central Java (Yogyakarta and Solo), Cirebon/ West Java, East Java, and Madura as the distinction is not clear for most of us. Thank you and best regards

17th May 2015, 10:39 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Not clear to me either Jean. Nor to anybody I know in Solo. My personal opinion is that whilst some things are pretty obvious and known to virtually everybody, such as the distinction between Jawa and Madura, just about everything else is up for grabs. In fact, going back a long time to when I got my first few keris, keris that had been collected mostly in Batavia (Jakarta) in about 1920, most of those keris had no mendak at all. I know that some mendak patterns are accepted by many people as Jogja, and others as Solo, but then you get the situation where you find something that has previously been identified as Solo being identified as Jogja, because it is on a big Jogja jejeran, rather than a small one. For as long as I've been going to Indonesia, which is 40 odd years, the distinction that seems to be most usually made is between Central Jawa and East Jawa/Madura. East Jawa Madura are generally a little bit bigger, and are hollow, Central Jawa are fabricated and a little bit smaller, but in practice it seems as if the general rule for use is that if the mendak fits the jejeran, and looks OK, that is what gets used. If we look at keris that we know to be pre-1700, what we find is that a lot of these keris do not have mendak, even though they would have been collected as virtually new keris. Others of these early keris have a quite high fabricated mendak, with some applied ornamentation. Then we have the rare iron mendaks, which I think probably belonged with the North Coast iron seluts, and I believe are a direct continuation of the metuk which preceded the mendak. Sorry Jean, I cannot answer your question. Actually these mendak are not really a collection, they're just a few of the more interesting ones I have, I've probably got about 500 mendak and wewer, all stored in bottles.

18th May 2015, 10:06 AM	#3
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Perhaps this is a foolish question, but what lies behind the rarity of these objects? Have they been ignored, or unremarked by collectors, until now? They don't seem all that fragile so they ought to survive, are they being sold to jewelers when the family hits dire straits? What do you say?

18th May 2015, 01:55 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The new ones are not rare, and you can buy really cheap ones for almost nothing --- good ones cost, sometimes cost big when we are talking top quality and premium materials, but the old ones seem to have been used up. By "used up" I mean that they have broken, or been lost and the quite small existing stock has been re-distributed to existing old keris. I've often had old keris in my hands that didn't have any mendak, or had a junk modern one, or if an old mendak was fitted, it was crushed and broken. Over a 50 year period I've simply bought every halfway decent old mendak that I've come across. That's why I have so many. Not "collection", more "accumulation". Many old mendak were pretty fragile. The iron ones, cast bronze and cast brass were not fragile, but there were very few of those, however, the fabricated ones would in many cases have crushed and broken if the blade hit a bone when thrust. The hollow East Jawa/Madura ones you can crush between your fingers.

18th May 2015, 11:05 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	But there is a reason for those cheapy mendak Willem. A good brand new mendak can cost more than a pretty reasonable sort of keris. A good old mendak can cost more than a decent keris. It wasn't always like this, but it is now. If somebody in the keris trade in Indonesia wants to sell a good keris, and by keris, I mean the keris itself, not including the dress, they limit their buyers by dressing that keris in premium component parts, so they either sell the blade bare, or use cheap, low quality dress. This permits the new owner to dress the keris as he sees fit. However, if he wishes to use older dress on the old keris, he may take quite some time to assemble the quality parts he needs, and one of the more difficult parts is the mendak.

19th May 2015, 12:24 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	What kind of mendak would fit a Pathani Tajong with a Swaasa cover for the "nose"? Are those available? How much would they cost?