Interesting odd klewang at eBay

kai · 15th December 2005, 02:17 PM

Hi Michael,

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

On the Nabur I agree on the fuller as well as they are not as slender as this blade.

Well, Fig. 388 in Zonneveld shows a Nabur with also very slender blade. Incidentally, 389 & 390 show a shallow fuller (still quite different from the discussed example) and the latter pic also has a very vaguely bud-like pommel piece. Borneo is a vast area, so poorly known hilt types may be a possibility.

Regards,
Kai

Bill · 15th December 2005, 03:04 PM

Agree with Kai and the examples cited. May have been originally doubled edged towards the blade tip or modified for definitive warfare; used like the panabas as a clean-up.

VVV · 15th December 2005, 03:34 PM

Kai,

I retract my earlier comment on the slender blade.
I have one resembling pict 388 - that's even a bit longer - and of course the XXL ones have a more slender blade than the "regular" or very short Naburs.
Thanks also for commenting on the bud. I don't have any of this variation but have handled 390 IRL and "almost" got one at Herman Historica last Spring (Auction 48 - lot 2813 if you want an additional reference picture than the one in van Z). I forgot about it because it's quite rare.
On pict 389 I am a bit sceptical to if it should be called a Parang Nabur if it doesn't have the D-guard, but that's another discussion...

Thanks for all input!

Michael

RhysMichael · 15th December 2005, 04:45 PM

Just my thoughts. The blade on here strongly reminds me of the blades on Aceh peudeueng peusangan( aka sikin peusangan, sikin pasagan ). Compare these two

Of course the handle is very different. I would like to hear if others see the resemblance in the blade or not

The hilt does have some resemblance to a hulu tapa guda. You can see on on D. Buttins site here : http://old.blades.free.fr/pics/picsw...ang/kle03p.jpg
And the tulip bud is a common motif in Aceh art, many of the other carvings shown also resemble motifs and designs seen in "Hands of Time - Crafts of Aceh" by Barbara Leigh. Of course there are many other places in the region that use similar designs. That being said I think there is a strong case to be made for it being an Aceh sword

VVV · 15th December 2005, 08:31 PM

Thanks RhysMichael,

Very resembling blade.
So back again to Aceh origin...

Michael

kai · 15th December 2005, 09:38 PM

Thanks for the reminder, John!

http://home.comcast.net/~jtcrosby/Aceh.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhysMichael

Just my thoughts. The blade on here strongly reminds me of the blades on Aceh peudeueng peusangan( aka sikin peusangan, sikin pasagan ).

That's surely the strongest contender so far - especially the deep fuller is very convincing in my eyes (the tip configuration seems only slightly different). Is this your piece or can you please inquire wether the false edge is sharpened?

Quote:

Of course the handle is very different.

Could be an ideosyncracy or more likely some "unknown" variety which just didn't make it into the textbooks. Could also be an transplated blade which got rehilted by a different group but this seems quite unlikely given the rarity of this blade variant in the first place...

Quote:

I would like to hear if others see the resemblance in the blade or not

Sure, good one! I have only seen these blades with the the usual tip more akin to a peudeung/sikin panjang tip.

Quote:

The hilt does have some resemblance to a hulu tapa guda. You can see on on D. Buttins site here : http://old.blades.free.fr/pics/picsw...ang/kle03p.jpg

There is some semblance (some exmples even have a distinct central protrusion) and, more vaguely, to the hulu cangge gliwang and hulu iku ite. I think this hilt could very well have evolved within northern Sumatra (without having a definite extant ancestor). However, similar hilts pop up far and wide over the archipelago and are not restricted to Sumatra.

Quote:

That being said I think there is a strong case to be made for it being an Aceh sword

Northern Sumatra seems to be a good guess (including other kingdoms and possibly even some Batak regions).

Regards,
Kai

RhysMichael · 16th December 2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Is this your piece or can you please inquire wether the false edge is sharpened ?

Yes it is mine. It is not sharpened but it is nearly so. The false edge goes down almost to a sharpe edge. I will post a picture of this later

Ian · 17th December 2005, 03:11 AM

John:

Agree. Those blades look very similar. Appears to be a distinct type of sword that is very uncommon.

The"bud" at the end of the hilt -- could that be a lotus flower? If so, does that give a clue to which tribal group might have such a motif? I don't recall a lotus symbol being used widely in Isalmic art. More likely Buddhist, but then that does not fit well with Sumatra.

Interesting.

Ian

15th December 2005, 04:45 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Just my thoughts. The blade on here strongly reminds me of the blades on Aceh peudeueng peusangan( aka sikin peusangan, sikin pasagan ). Compare these two Of course the handle is very different. I would like to hear if others see the resemblance in the blade or not The hilt does have some resemblance to a hulu tapa guda. You can see on on D. Buttins site here : http://old.blades.free.fr/pics/picsw...ang/kle03p.jpg And the tulip bud is a common motif in Aceh art, many of the other carvings shown also resemble motifs and designs seen in "Hands of Time - Crafts of Aceh" by Barbara Leigh. Of course there are many other places in the region that use similar designs. That being said I think there is a strong case to be made for it being an Aceh sword Last edited by RhysMichael; 15th December 2005 at 05:56 PM.

15th December 2005, 03:04 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Agree with Kai and the examples cited. May have been originally doubled edged towards the blade tip or modified for definitive warfare; used like the panabas as a clean-up.

15th December 2005, 03:34 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Kai, I retract my earlier comment on the slender blade. I have one resembling pict 388 - that's even a bit longer - and of course the XXL ones have a more slender blade than the "regular" or very short Naburs. Thanks also for commenting on the bud. I don't have any of this variation but have handled 390 IRL and "almost" got one at Herman Historica last Spring (Auction 48 - lot 2813 if you want an additional reference picture than the one in van Z). I forgot about it because it's quite rare. On pict 389 I am a bit sceptical to if it should be called a Parang Nabur if it doesn't have the D-guard, but that's another discussion... Thanks for all input! Michael

15th December 2005, 08:31 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks RhysMichael, Very resembling blade. So back again to Aceh origin... Michael

17th December 2005, 03:11 AM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	John: Agree. Those blades look very similar. Appears to be a distinct type of sword that is very uncommon. The"bud" at the end of the hilt -- could that be a lotus flower? If so, does that give a clue to which tribal group might have such a motif? I don't recall a lotus symbol being used widely in Isalmic art. More likely Buddhist, but then that does not fit well with Sumatra. Interesting. Ian