Basket hilted swords

[E.B. Erickson]

Here's some additional thoughts on the Irish 3/4 baskets like Cathey's.

They do exist with other blade types. The one in Mazansky shows but a single fuller, so not likely to be one of the Trade blades, as they all have triple fullers right up to the hilt. And on the first page of this thread is a sword posted by Mark Deyer - same basket as Cathey's, bun shaped pommel, and has what I would bet is a se blade with the narrow and wide fullering. I may be wrong about that, but one thing is sure, Mark's blade is a lot narrower than the one in Cathey's hilt.

This Irish style hilt also exists in full basket versions; see the attached photo.

--ElJay

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by E.B. Erickson

Here's some additional thoughts on the Irish 3/4 baskets like Cathey's.

They do exist with other blade types. The one in Mazansky shows but a single fuller, so not likely to be one of the Trade blades, as they all have triple fullers right up to the hilt. And on the first page of this thread is a sword posted by Mark Deyer - same basket as Cathey's, bun shaped pommel, and has what I would bet is a se blade with the narrow and wide fullering. I may be wrong about that, but one thing is sure, Mark's blade is a lot narrower than the one in Cathey's hilt.

This Irish style hilt also exists in full basket versions; see the attached photo.

--ElJay

Salaams Eljay, Sir, I am a beginner to the world of this type of hilt however I am interested in the Irish Basket Hilt and where such hilts were manufactured... Am I right in thinking that this is only a terminology and that there was no actual Irish Basket but that the Scottish Basket was simply sometimes referred to as Irish. (depending on how much Drambuii was consumed)
I am especially interested in the Shotley Bridge Swordmaker and wondered if they made a lot of Baskets for remounts and or for blades from there... I note the running Fox and SH on an earlier post related to the Shotley maker.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Cathey]

Hi Eljay and welcome Ibrahiim

Eljay you are correct, when it comes to hilt construction, actually there has been one posted on this site in the past. However, it is the pommel that sets the so called Irish hilt apart and I am, yet to find an example complete with this pommel and a different blade. Although like everything there is sure to be one out there somewhere. I have attached a picture of the previous sword posted on this forum, sadly can’t see the blade so I hope Mark Deyer who posted this sword originally in July 2013 will share with us a picture of the blade.

When I refer to the pommel you will note that both the example you posted and Mark’s have the typical English bun pommel. The swords reputedly with an Irish connection have a more Scottish style of pommel, quite distinctive. It is this combination that I am yet to find with a different blade.

I was also thinking about our tendency to refer to many early swords as being composite in a negative light. In reality with Germany, Italy and Spain being famous for their production of blades particularly from circa 1500-1700, most extremely original swords would fit in the composite category. For example almost all Scottish basket hilts had imported blades, the Scott’s made great hilts but appear to have had little appetite for making blades when you could order excellent quality from Germany or simply take one off a dead Englishman and have it re-hilted.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[Cathey]

With the very early baskets there is certainly been some research to suggest that origins between Scottish, Irish and English are very blurred. There is a particularly good article written on the Sword hilts of the Border Reivers which I will attach, not sure how well it will come up in Jpeg.

When it comes to Shotley bridge this is an interesting area and there are two small books available that deal specifically with Shotley Bridge. They are:
BYGATE, John G The Hollow Blade - The german swordmakers of shotley bridge SC 74 pp.
RICHARDSON, David The Swordmakers of Shotley Bridge, PB Northern History Booklet No: 37, 67pp.

Welcome to a fascinating area of sword history. The basket hilt has a certain amount of romance attached to it, but the variety and the fact that examples can also be attributed to Europe make it particularly interesting area of study. If only swords could talk we would know so much more.

Cheers

Cathey and Rex.

[Cathey]

Hi Will

Actually I think lot 186 at Czerny’s recent sale is correct. Looking at the way they photograph things I think the strange colour is just the way they have cleaned up there photo’s on the black background. If I lighten it up it looks pretty similar to mine, which also has evidence of a dark stain to the leather that is largely worn off. The sword was passed in so it is probably still available at the low reserve. If I didn’t have a good example already I would probably have go at this one.

Cheers Cathey and Rex

[E.B. Erickson]

Cathey - OK, I now understand what you meant: the hilt construction plus the pommel type is only seen with the broad triple fullered blade. I am in agreement with that. The only exception could be the one illustrated in Mazansky.

Ibrahim - The term Irish hilt does not really refer to anything specific historically. Back in the 16-1700s it appears to have been used as a generic reference to basket hilts. Nowdays, it seems to be identified with a particular style of baskethilt construction as seen in the examples shown in this thread.

--Eljay

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Cathey

With the very early baskets there is certainly been some research to suggest that origins between Scottish, Irish and English are very blurred. There is a particularly good article written on the Sword hilts of the Border Reivers which I will attach, not sure how well it will come up in Jpeg.

When it comes to Shotley bridge this is an interesting area and there are two small books available that deal specifically with Shotley Bridge. They are:
BYGATE, John G The Hollow Blade - The german swordmakers of shotley bridge SC 74 pp.
RICHARDSON, David The Swordmakers of Shotley Bridge, PB Northern History Booklet No: 37, 67pp.

Welcome to a fascinating area of sword history. The basket hilt has a certain amount of romance attached to it, but the variety and the fact that examples can also be attributed to Europe make it particularly interesting area of study. If only swords could talk we would know so much more.

Cheers

Cathey and Rex.

Salaams Cathey and thank you very much for your excellent notes and fine detail...

Thanks also to Eljay and everyone for a most excellent thread...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.