Keris Basics

nechesh · 7th January 2005, 03:10 PM

Hi Rahman. I believe what i described was a keris w/o a SEPERATE gonjo, in other words, it is not a seperately forged piece of metal, the keris is all one piece. This is what i understand to be gonjo iras. I did not describe a keris that was sold w/o a gonjo, as in missing a gonjo that was originally there, if that is what you mean. I'm not sure i understand your distinction.

nechesh · 7th January 2005, 06:27 PM

Michael, it sounds like what you are interested in finding are older keris. Perhaps you need to set your criteria there. Do you want keris that are only 19thC and older?Are early 20th C blades still acceptable to you? That kind of thing. I say this because newly made keris are not necessarily "touristy" as you describe them. Some, of course, obviously are made for the tourist market and are distictively lower in quality, but as i stated before, there are a great many keris being made today that even surpass the artistic quality of many "original" keris. The majority of these keris are never meant for export and are bought up by Javanese collectors. They are acid washed to look old not necessarily to fool anybody, but because this is the look that the present day Javanese collector prefers. It is the style of the day. There is much evidence that in the early days the Javanese custom was to polish the surface of the blade in the same manner that is customary to Balinese keris. This can be seen in examples that were collected by the Dutch many centuries ago. Now the rougher finished look is the preference in Jawa. This is only a problem when someone decides to sell one of these newly made blades as old. If you go on eBay you will find that the large majority of keris described as 19thC and older are actually these newly made keris that have been given this acid washed finish. I could tell you exactly which sellers do this on a regular basis, but then the moderators would have me drawn and quartered.

Yes, it is complicated.

Michael · 14th January 2005, 05:27 AM

hi
I was more interested in 19th centuries keris indeed and not too old ones since i would like to appreciate a well conserved pamor...to tell the truth, i've never seen the kind of recent and well wrought keris that you all refer too...i might change my position if i had a coup de coeur..but, the point is that i just don't want to be screwed and to buy a keris that is not what the seller indicates...the most expensive ones are often the old ones and i'm just an easy and unexperienced prey for keris sellers here

thanx for sharing ur ideas anyway

michael

nechesh · 14th January 2005, 04:16 PM

Well Michael, one way to avoid being prey is to stay off eBay and only buy from reputable dealers. They can sometimes be wrong themselves, but you stand a much better chance dealing with someone with a reputation for honesty.

7th January 2005, 03:10 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Rahman. I believe what i described was a keris w/o a SEPERATE gonjo, in other words, it is not a seperately forged piece of metal, the keris is all one piece. This is what i understand to be gonjo iras. I did not describe a keris that was sold w/o a gonjo, as in missing a gonjo that was originally there, if that is what you mean. I'm not sure i understand your distinction.

7th January 2005, 06:27 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Michael, it sounds like what you are interested in finding are older keris. Perhaps you need to set your criteria there. Do you want keris that are only 19thC and older?Are early 20th C blades still acceptable to you? That kind of thing. I say this because newly made keris are not necessarily "touristy" as you describe them. Some, of course, obviously are made for the tourist market and are distictively lower in quality, but as i stated before, there are a great many keris being made today that even surpass the artistic quality of many "original" keris. The majority of these keris are never meant for export and are bought up by Javanese collectors. They are acid washed to look old not necessarily to fool anybody, but because this is the look that the present day Javanese collector prefers. It is the style of the day. There is much evidence that in the early days the Javanese custom was to polish the surface of the blade in the same manner that is customary to Balinese keris. This can be seen in examples that were collected by the Dutch many centuries ago. Now the rougher finished look is the preference in Jawa. This is only a problem when someone decides to sell one of these newly made blades as old. If you go on eBay you will find that the large majority of keris described as 19thC and older are actually these newly made keris that have been given this acid washed finish. I could tell you exactly which sellers do this on a regular basis, but then the moderators would have me drawn and quartered. Yes, it is complicated.

14th January 2005, 05:27 AM	#3
Michael Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 3	hi I was more interested in 19th centuries keris indeed and not too old ones since i would like to appreciate a well conserved pamor...to tell the truth, i've never seen the kind of recent and well wrought keris that you all refer too...i might change my position if i had a coup de coeur..but, the point is that i just don't want to be screwed and to buy a keris that is not what the seller indicates...the most expensive ones are often the old ones and i'm just an easy and unexperienced prey for keris sellers here thanx for sharing ur ideas anyway michael

14th January 2005, 04:16 PM	#4
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Well Michael, one way to avoid being prey is to stay off eBay and only buy from reputable dealers. They can sometimes be wrong themselves, but you stand a much better chance dealing with someone with a reputation for honesty.