Types of Keris

Sajen · 10th November 2014, 08:41 PM

At last my Tajong keris.

The here shown keris are by far not all types and origins you can find but I want to let others also something to show!

Gavin Nugent · 11th November 2014, 01:38 AM

The Keris appeal...

Great Question Ron, and one I'll never fully understand in my lifetime so praise the forum and its generous members and other collectors who give their precious time, I am in debt to both.

I got caught on some time back when I first obtained the Kelling Hall collection and started to become a closet Keris collector and the more I look and learn the more I feel like Russel Crowe writing on walls in "A Beautiful Mind"...If I kept writing notes I'd fill the walls of the house on what's from where with how many things in the Keris world came to be and melded together in different regions over the centuries...I've also learnt even the most learned student may not see eye to eye perfectly due to such a massive cross regional influence in the seas south of Asia.

This is my only Java Keris, one I know very little about. The rest of my 40 something collection is from Pattani, Malaysia and Sumatra...I personally find these the most appealing.

Gavin

Spunjer · 11th November 2014, 02:56 AM

it's definitely a hugh undertaking, something that has to be taken very patiently. for now i'm trying to approach this from the biggest to the smallest, kinda like taxonomy. i reckon starting with general locations would be, well, a good place to start.
Bali seems to stand out, and so are Bugis. thanks for the basic breakdown on Java, yuuzan, i'm starting to see the difference. Detlef, thanks for the pictures. they're big help! let me ask you this though: what's the difference between the branggah keris, cirebon keris and the madura keris??? sure the pommels are different, but from my novice eyes, the wrangka on the scabbard look similar?

Spunjer · 11th November 2014, 02:57 AM

also, what's a peninsular keris?

btw, thanks for the posting your keris, Gavin. beautiful indeed!

kai · 11th November 2014, 10:24 AM

Hello Ron,

Quote:

let me ask you this though: what's the difference between the branggah keris, cirebon keris and the madura keris??? sure the pommels are different, but from my novice eyes, the wrangka on the scabbard look similar?

Yup, similar. Look for the differences though!

Quote:

also, what's a peninsular keris?

Malay peninsula, a geographic term that includes some areas nowadays under Thai administration.

Quote:

btw, thanks for the posting your keris, Gavin. beautiful indeed!

Yeah, forumites seem to do their best to spoil Ron...

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 11th November 2014, 11:56 AM

Ron, I can understand you thinking that a keris from Cirebon, a keris from Madura, and a keris of branggah style are all similar. In point of fact, if you had these three types in front of you, and then you picked them up one by one and handled them, they are all very, very different.

The problem is that in a photograph you only see the outline of something, you do not see the depth, nor can you assess the weight or the balance. To assess just about anything to do with keris, it is not at all satisfactory to try to assess it from a photograph.

However, putting that to one side, as Kai has said:- "look at the differences"

The understanding of keris involves looking at, reading, and understanding minute differences, often things that you cannot see without the aid of magnification, and that you certainly cannot see in a photograph --- well, not quite true, you can see some of these things in very good close-ups taken by a good photographer under good conditions with good equipment.

But even without those close-ups, look closely at just what you can see in the photos that have been posted above, look for the differences. The study of keris is all about the study of fine detail, not at all about superficial impressions. That fine detail can mean a lot of money when you get into the realm of serious keris collecting.

Sajen · 11th November 2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

let me ask you this though: what's the difference between the branggah keris, cirebon keris and the madura keris??? sure the pommels are different, but from my novice eyes, the wrangka on the scabbard look similar?

Will post them side by side again that you can study the difference.

From left to right: Yogya branggah, Solo ladrang, Cirebon, Madura daunan and to add more confusion a other form, maybe from Madura or the North of Java.

Spunjer · 12th November 2014, 12:05 PM

ahh, danke schoen, Detlef! individually taken, i can't tell the difference between the wrangka... i see it now. although i did notice earlier that the madura had a carvings on the one side which i thought was irrelevant but evidently it doesn't.
it's a very complex thing indeed, and one that needs a long time to learn. thanks for everyone's insight so far!

Sajen · 13th November 2014, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

ahh, danke schoen, Detlef!

You are welcome Ron! You have been many times helpful when I've had questions about Philippine blades and I am glad to be from help now!

10th November 2014, 08:41 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	At last my Tajong keris. The here shown keris are by far not all types and origins you can find but I want to let others also something to show! Attached Images

11th November 2014, 01:38 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Keris types The Keris appeal... Great Question Ron, and one I'll never fully understand in my lifetime so praise the forum and its generous members and other collectors who give their precious time, I am in debt to both. I got caught on some time back when I first obtained the Kelling Hall collection and started to become a closet Keris collector and the more I look and learn the more I feel like Russel Crowe writing on walls in "A Beautiful Mind"...If I kept writing notes I'd fill the walls of the house on what's from where with how many things in the Keris world came to be and melded together in different regions over the centuries...I've also learnt even the most learned student may not see eye to eye perfectly due to such a massive cross regional influence in the seas south of Asia. This is my only Java Keris, one I know very little about. The rest of my 40 something collection is from Pattani, Malaysia and Sumatra...I personally find these the most appealing. Gavin Attached Images

11th November 2014, 02:56 AM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	it's definitely a hugh undertaking, something that has to be taken very patiently. for now i'm trying to approach this from the biggest to the smallest, kinda like taxonomy. i reckon starting with general locations would be, well, a good place to start. Bali seems to stand out, and so are Bugis. thanks for the basic breakdown on Java, yuuzan, i'm starting to see the difference. Detlef, thanks for the pictures. they're big help! let me ask you this though: what's the difference between the branggah keris, cirebon keris and the madura keris??? sure the pommels are different, but from my novice eyes, the wrangka on the scabbard look similar? Attached Images

11th November 2014, 02:57 AM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	also, what's a peninsular keris? btw, thanks for the posting your keris, Gavin. beautiful indeed!

11th November 2014, 11:56 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Ron, I can understand you thinking that a keris from Cirebon, a keris from Madura, and a keris of branggah style are all similar. In point of fact, if you had these three types in front of you, and then you picked them up one by one and handled them, they are all very, very different. The problem is that in a photograph you only see the outline of something, you do not see the depth, nor can you assess the weight or the balance. To assess just about anything to do with keris, it is not at all satisfactory to try to assess it from a photograph. However, putting that to one side, as Kai has said:- "look at the differences" The understanding of keris involves looking at, reading, and understanding minute differences, often things that you cannot see without the aid of magnification, and that you certainly cannot see in a photograph --- well, not quite true, you can see some of these things in very good close-ups taken by a good photographer under good conditions with good equipment. But even without those close-ups, look closely at just what you can see in the photos that have been posted above, look for the differences. The study of keris is all about the study of fine detail, not at all about superficial impressions. That fine detail can mean a lot of money when you get into the realm of serious keris collecting.

12th November 2014, 12:05 PM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ahh, danke schoen, Detlef! individually taken, i can't tell the difference between the wrangka... i see it now. although i did notice earlier that the madura had a carvings on the one side which i thought was irrelevant but evidently it doesn't. it's a very complex thing indeed, and one that needs a long time to learn. thanks for everyone's insight so far!