Please help me identify this Keris.

Jean · 4th November 2014, 09:44 AM

Scott, I share what Alan said about this kris, and I would like to know the lenght of the blade (excluding the tang).
Regards

Scott B. · 4th November 2014, 11:27 AM

Hi Jean,
The blade length is 390mm if that helps.
Cheers,
Scott

Gustav · 4th November 2014, 12:54 PM

Alan, your remark on this Keris (#1) is

"this keris is a nice old Balinese one".

Your remark on a Keris (#2) from this thread - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18653 - was

"Very ordinary sort of keris", without any positive/assertive adjectives in your further comment on it.

I completely agree with you, both Keris are "nice old Balinese ones" and both are "very ordinary sort of keris". Yet without the respectively missing part both remarks are not objective.

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Lets take a good chance for comparison of these two Keris.

Both are Balinese, both blades are Sempono. Keris #1 has 3, perhaps 4 layers of contrasting bright Pamor material, also Keris #2. On Keris #1 they look homogenous and quite thin, on Keris #2 they are layered in itself, so thicker, and are giving much more pleasant, lush overall Pamor appearance.

In terms of surface finish/polish Keris #2 has clearly has a better and/or better preserved one.

Keris #1 has quite flat Luk, usual for this Dhapur, Luk of #2 are more rounded and perhaps better proportioned.

Keris #1 dont have the markings on Gonjo below the Gandhik, which gives it a simpler appearance.

We don't have a picture of the front face of sheat of #1, so comparison is not possible.

The clear advantage of #1 is the very nice hilt with good Pelet. Either it is quite huge, which is not uncommon with Bebondolan with fancy grain, or the blade is quite small, like #2.

#1 has an Uwer, which seems to have only 4 stones, which is not common for more recently produced Uwer.

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So, it certainly had have a life prior to 1974 and maybe even before 1908.

Certainly not a blade which was made for tourists.

Almost certainly a Sudra, the lowest caste, about 93% of Balinese population around 1920.

Jean · 4th November 2014, 01:14 PM

OK, I will contribute as I am very interested by the subject.
The blade size is 39 cm long i.e a bit shorter than the usual big balinese blades with deep & sharp ricikan (40 cm+).
In Java this dapur with 9 shallow waves would be called Sempana Kalentang but with one exception (no tikel alis). The pamor pattern is a common one and could be identified as Ngulit Semangka (watermelon rind) but alternative names could be given to it also. The thick kembang kacang is typical of this type of balinese (?) blade. One aspect which makes me doubt that it is a balinese blade is that the ganja has pamor contrary to most old balinese krisses which I have seen.
From the pics the surface shows some pits and does not look polished as the typical balinese blades, however it looks shiny but because it is oiled?
There are very few examples of such blades in the reference books "Keris Bali bersejarah" and "Keris di Lombok" but there are many similar specimens shown in the book "Keris Bali" by the late I.B. Dibia which focuses on common quality balinese krisses.
I personally do not know whether these blades are older types of balinese/ Lombok blades or East Javanese ones and solicit other opinions about it.
And the warangka batun poh seems to be made from berora pelet wood but the front side should be shown for confirming it.
Regards

Scott B. · 4th November 2014, 02:11 PM

Thank you very much for your replies! Yes I have oiled the blade because it had some rust after being stored in a wooden chest by my parents for the past 40 years. When I found it and saw it had rust I instinctively got some oil an wiped it on the blade for protection! I now know that is not always the best option but I would rather have oil than rust on my blade!

However the blade was quite shiny prior to me oiling it, but I cannot compare this to any other Keris due to my inexperience, sorry.

David · 4th November 2014, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott B.

Thank you very much for your replies! Yes I have oiled the blade because it had some rust after being stored in a wooden chest by my parents for the past 40 years. When I found it and saw it had rust I instinctively got some oil an wiped it on the blade for protection! I now know that is not always the best option but I would rather have oil than rust on my blade

Actually Scott, oiling your blade probably was indeed the "best" option. You really can't go wrong there.

The wood also looks a bit dry and could probably use some wood oil.
Though a bit shorter than the average Bali blade i don't believe that disqualifies a Bali origin. I do agree with Jean that pamor on a gonjo (if you are unfamiliar with the terminology, that is the separate guard-like piece at the base of the blade) is rare, but it is not unprecedented. Mostly i would consider this to be a Bali keris, but i suppose Lombok isn't out of the question, being a vassal state of Bali for so long. I would not personally look as far as East Jawa though.

4th November 2014, 12:54 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Alan, your remark on this Keris (#1) is "this keris is a nice old Balinese one". Your remark on a Keris (#2) from this thread - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18653 - was "Very ordinary sort of keris", without any positive/assertive adjectives in your further comment on it. I completely agree with you, both Keris are "nice old Balinese ones" and both are "very ordinary sort of keris". Yet without the respectively missing part both remarks are not objective. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lets take a good chance for comparison of these two Keris. Both are Balinese, both blades are Sempono. Keris #1 has 3, perhaps 4 layers of contrasting bright Pamor material, also Keris #2. On Keris #1 they look homogenous and quite thin, on Keris #2 they are layered in itself, so thicker, and are giving much more pleasant, lush overall Pamor appearance. In terms of surface finish/polish Keris #2 has clearly has a better and/or better preserved one. Keris #1 has quite flat Luk, usual for this Dhapur, Luk of #2 are more rounded and perhaps better proportioned. Keris #1 dont have the markings on Gonjo below the Gandhik, which gives it a simpler appearance. We don't have a picture of the front face of sheat of #1, so comparison is not possible. The clear advantage of #1 is the very nice hilt with good Pelet. Either it is quite huge, which is not uncommon with Bebondolan with fancy grain, or the blade is quite small, like #2. #1 has an Uwer, which seems to have only 4 stones, which is not common for more recently produced Uwer. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- So, it certainly had have a life prior to 1974 and maybe even before 1908. Certainly not a blade which was made for tourists. Almost certainly a Sudra, the lowest caste, about 93% of Balinese population around 1920. Attached Images

4th November 2014, 01:14 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	OK, I will contribute as I am very interested by the subject. The blade size is 39 cm long i.e a bit shorter than the usual big balinese blades with deep & sharp ricikan (40 cm+). In Java this dapur with 9 shallow waves would be called Sempana Kalentang but with one exception (no tikel alis). The pamor pattern is a common one and could be identified as Ngulit Semangka (watermelon rind) but alternative names could be given to it also. The thick kembang kacang is typical of this type of balinese (?) blade. One aspect which makes me doubt that it is a balinese blade is that the ganja has pamor contrary to most old balinese krisses which I have seen. From the pics the surface shows some pits and does not look polished as the typical balinese blades, however it looks shiny but because it is oiled? There are very few examples of such blades in the reference books "Keris Bali bersejarah" and "Keris di Lombok" but there are many similar specimens shown in the book "Keris Bali" by the late I.B. Dibia which focuses on common quality balinese krisses. I personally do not know whether these blades are older types of balinese/ Lombok blades or East Javanese ones and solicit other opinions about it. And the warangka batun poh seems to be made from berora pelet wood but the front side should be shown for confirming it. Regards Last edited by Jean; 4th November 2014 at 07:53 PM.

4th November 2014, 09:44 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Scott, I share what Alan said about this kris, and I would like to know the lenght of the blade (excluding the tang). Regards

4th November 2014, 11:27 AM	#2
Scott B. Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7	Hi Jean, The blade length is 390mm if that helps. Cheers, Scott

4th November 2014, 02:11 PM	#5
Scott B. Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 7	Thank you very much for your replies! Yes I have oiled the blade because it had some rust after being stored in a wooden chest by my parents for the past 40 years. When I found it and saw it had rust I instinctively got some oil an wiped it on the blade for protection! I now know that is not always the best option but I would rather have oil than rust on my blade! However the blade was quite shiny prior to me oiling it, but I cannot compare this to any other Keris due to my inexperience, sorry.