Chinese (or other country) sai/parrying weapon

[Shakethetrees]

As I recall, there are images to be found in the W.O. Oldman catalog.

They are not sai, but basically iron or bronze bars or tapering straight form with sword like hilts.

I will have to locate my copy and see if I can get a clear enough scan to use here. While the pictures are old and a bit faded, I believe the add a few interesting types that are scarcely seen these days.

In reading translated accounts of riots and crowd control during the 19th century's many upheavals I recall that they simply called these weapons "iron bars". This is probably due to translation issues as the Chinese term for them is never mentioned.

I will have a look around tonight.

[spiral]

Id guess these may be the weapons the Brits banned in Hong Kong & Shanghai as fighting irons?

It would be fascinating to see old photos of them in situ!

Given the mostly primitive black smithing structure of them Id guess we would have to assume there many fakes out there. Especially from China?

Ive heard hearsay of some being made & sold from Cornwall 20 to 30 years ago, by a fellow who collected & traded authentic Japanese swords....

spiral

[Timo Nieminen]

The various potential "fighting irons" are:

1. Iron ruler (鐵尺 (traditional), 铁尺 (simplified) , Pinyin tiě chǐ). Short iron bar, with or without distinct grip, with or without guard.

2. Jian (usually translated as "mace", 鐧 (traditional), 锏 (simplified), Pinyin jiǎn). Not the same character as jian "sword", which is 劍 (traditional), 剑 (simplified), Pinyin jiàn. Sword length (short sword) rather than dagger length.

3. Bian ("whip", 鞭, Pinyin biān). Apparently distinguished from jian by having a knobbed or segmented shape. Also "hard whip", to distinguish it from jointed metal whips (also bian) and flexible soft whips.

Jian and bian are often called "swordbreakers" in English. They appear in the Ming classic, The Water Margin, as weapons used by some of the heroes. Traditionally used in pairs.

At least some jian/bian are training devices, rather than weapons per se. If they're very heavy, or cast iron: probably trainers.

Some antique and modern examples shown in http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16220

Some more examples, some with scabbards:
Pair of tie chi: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2499
Jian:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2004
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2280
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=2463
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1704
Long jian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=3624
Bian: http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=4309

There were also long two-handed jian, like the long one above, but with longer grips.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

As I recall, there are images to be found in the W.O. Oldman catalog.

They are not sai, but basically iron or bronze bars or tapering straight form with sword like hilts.

I will have to locate my copy and see if I can get a clear enough scan to use here. While the pictures are old and a bit faded, I believe the add a few interesting types that are scarcely seen these days.

In reading translated accounts of riots and crowd control during the 19th century's many upheavals I recall that they simply called these weapons "iron bars". This is probably due to translation issues as the Chinese term for them is never mentioned.

I will have a look around tonight.

If you can find any additional images of any type that would be helpful.