Polynesian war club (or maori?)

kronckew · 29th September 2014, 08:38 AM

response from dealer was that it was bought at an auction from a private owner then re-sold to the current dealer. she indicated that she initially thought it was maori, but knew that the carving pattern may have placed it at another island, hence the generic 'polynesian' in the listing rather than 'maori'.

translation: lost provenance.

could have been carved by a little old lady in the shetlands for the Up Helly Aa!

native shetland islanders

kronckew · 30th September 2014, 03:40 PM

'club' thingy arrived today & is on it's way back to supplier.

when i unpacked it it was remarkably light. tinked it with my fingernail - it sounded like plastic. examining further, i could see in the detail near the lanyard hole where the mould hadn't filled fully. repacked it and sent it back.

luckily i'd ought it online with paypal & they will ensure i get a refund one way or another. dealer said her supplier told her he'd bought it at a bonham's sale so never looked closely.

shame, had a nice grain, sharp edge

i've since seen a couple of 'maori' clubs on ebay listed as 'vintage' that were duplicates of wood ones sold earlier this year, so i shall transfer my affections elsewhere for now.

'caveat emptor' works for dealers when buying as well as end users.

VANDOO · 30th September 2014, 04:42 PM

IT JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW LITTLE WE CAN TELL FROM A PICTURE IT SURE LOOKED LIKE A GOOD PIECE OF WOOD. THE OTHER TWO FORMS OF PLASTIC MAORI CLUBS I HANDLED LOOKED GOOD EVEN IN HAND BUT THE WEIGHT AND CUTS CARVED LOOKED A LITTLE FUNNY. WHOEVER THE NEW ZEALAND COMPANY IS WHO MAKES THEM DOES A VERY GOOD JOB.THEY ARE THE BEST RESIN CLUBS ON THE MARKET.

IF ITS A GOOD REPLICA OF ONE OF THE VERY BEST OLD MAORI CLUBS AT THE RIGHT PRICE FOR WHAT IT IS I FIND THEM WORTH HAVING.
THE ONE YOU HAD WAS A DIFFERENT PATTERN THAN I HAVE SEEN AND LIKELY NOT A OLD DESIGN. THE DESIGN WAS RECOGNIZABLE AND APPROPRIATE FOR MAORI AS IT DEPICTED A FERN THE 3 UNFURLED TENDRILS GOING UP THE BLADE.

kronckew · 1st October 2014, 11:26 AM

if it had been weighty and a lot cheaper i would have kept it. i saw a nice wahaika cast in aluminum auctioning on a nz site that i wanted to buy, sadly you needed a nz address to bid.

kronckew · 8th October 2014, 08:28 AM

had an update from the dealer i got it from. she, at my suggestion, did the red-hot pin test. it of course failed. she refunded me immediately. she said she was going to contact the dealer she got it from. she had a reply:

Quote:

I spoke with the dealer who sold the club to me. He was even more shocked than I was and will be taking the club back from me. I thought he said he had bought it at a Bonhams auction but in fact it was Sotherby's! So it seems that even the most reputable experts can be fooled which makes me feel a bit less of a twit! He will of course be taking the matter up with them. It just shows how clever these counterfeiters have become and we need more than our wits about us when we buy!

we all need to have a slave riding in the back of our chariot who tells us periodically "Memento mori" ("remember thou art but mortal").

Tim Simmons · 8th October 2014, 04:56 PM

Unless there is some creative thinking here, this situation with Bonham's and Sotherby's is outrageous. I can only imagine that this has come about by a provincial agent. Surely not the London head quarters?

kronckew · 8th October 2014, 05:07 PM

i only have what she told me she was told. no real evidence. thankfully my money was returned promptly and without any arguement.

could be her dealer was the cad & was making up the prestigious provenance. i hope i hear more. getting interesting. could have been a junior appraiser. maybe heads will roll....

been a while since we had someone in the tower here...

29th September 2014, 08:38 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	response from dealer was that it was bought at an auction from a private owner then re-sold to the current dealer. she indicated that she initially thought it was maori, but knew that the carving pattern may have placed it at another island, hence the generic 'polynesian' in the listing rather than 'maori'. translation: lost provenance. could have been carved by a little old lady in the shetlands for the Up Helly Aa! native shetland islanders

30th September 2014, 03:40 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	'club' thingy arrived today & is on it's way back to supplier. when i unpacked it it was remarkably light. tinked it with my fingernail - it sounded like plastic. examining further, i could see in the detail near the lanyard hole where the mould hadn't filled fully. repacked it and sent it back. luckily i'd ought it online with paypal & they will ensure i get a refund one way or another. dealer said her supplier told her he'd bought it at a bonham's sale so never looked closely. shame, had a nice grain, sharp edge i've since seen a couple of 'maori' clubs on ebay listed as 'vintage' that were duplicates of wood ones sold earlier this year, so i shall transfer my affections elsewhere for now. 'caveat emptor' works for dealers when buying as well as end users.

30th September 2014, 04:42 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW LITTLE WE CAN TELL FROM A PICTURE IT SURE LOOKED LIKE A GOOD PIECE OF WOOD. THE OTHER TWO FORMS OF PLASTIC MAORI CLUBS I HANDLED LOOKED GOOD EVEN IN HAND BUT THE WEIGHT AND CUTS CARVED LOOKED A LITTLE FUNNY. WHOEVER THE NEW ZEALAND COMPANY IS WHO MAKES THEM DOES A VERY GOOD JOB.THEY ARE THE BEST RESIN CLUBS ON THE MARKET. IF ITS A GOOD REPLICA OF ONE OF THE VERY BEST OLD MAORI CLUBS AT THE RIGHT PRICE FOR WHAT IT IS I FIND THEM WORTH HAVING. THE ONE YOU HAD WAS A DIFFERENT PATTERN THAN I HAVE SEEN AND LIKELY NOT A OLD DESIGN. THE DESIGN WAS RECOGNIZABLE AND APPROPRIATE FOR MAORI AS IT DEPICTED A FERN THE 3 UNFURLED TENDRILS GOING UP THE BLADE.

1st October 2014, 11:26 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	if it had been weighty and a lot cheaper i would have kept it. i saw a nice wahaika cast in aluminum auctioning on a nz site that i wanted to buy, sadly you needed a nz address to bid.

8th October 2014, 04:56 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Unless there is some creative thinking here, this situation with Bonham's and Sotherby's is outrageous. I can only imagine that this has come about by a provincial agent. Surely not the London head quarters?

8th October 2014, 05:07 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i only have what she told me she was told. no real evidence. thankfully my money was returned promptly and without any arguement. could be her dealer was the cad & was making up the prestigious provenance. i hope i hear more. getting interesting. could have been a junior appraiser. maybe heads will roll.... been a while since we had someone in the tower here...