Loaded Flintlock - problem or not?

spiral · 19th September 2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Rather than water, I would dampen the charge with thin oil, like 3 in 1. Let it sit overnight.

This will kill any pyrotechnic tendency.

I agree, Id go with this, definitely saturate in oil first....

Spiral

CutlassCollector · 19th September 2014, 09:46 PM

Thanks for the oil advice guys I'll go with that and thanks Michael for the science.
Regards, CC.

M ELEY · 21st September 2014, 03:11 AM

CC, you are going to post a pic of this sea service pistol, I hope!

Always like to see the naval stuff...and do be careful, as all have said. I've got an iron grenado with congealed black powder down the hole that I keep in a cool, dry place!

JamesKelly · 21st September 2014, 04:26 PM

Oil will render 19th & 20th century priming compound safe.

Does anyone here know, in fact, that oil will keep corned black powder from igniting? Personally I rather doubt it.

Black powder stays good for centuries.
Try not to kill or cripple yourself.

As a teen-ager I unloaded Grandfather's 20ga shotgun & an old Potsdam musket, doubt that I took proper precautions beyond avoiding the muzzle. Grampa was not pleased that his gun had been left loaded.

spiral · 21st September 2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesKelly

Oil will render 19th & 20th century priming compound safe.

Does anyone here know, in fact, that oil will keep corned black powder from igniting? Personally I rather doubt it.

Black powder stays good for centuries.
Try not to kill or cripple yourself.

As a teen-ager I unloaded Grandfather's 20ga shotgun & an old Potsdam musket, doubt that I took proper precautions beyond avoiding the muzzle. Grampa was not pleased that his gun had been left loaded.

Its what I was taught many decades ago, but Ive never tested it.

So yes ignore please my advice!

Some things I was taught HAVE proved to be wrong, over the years..

spiral

Shakethetrees · 21st September 2014, 07:48 PM

I will try to do a test this week and post my results.

CutlassCollector · 21st September 2014, 08:51 PM

Be careful with that! But a definitive answer would be good and I guess many people are interested in the result, especially as it seems likely that there are more muzzle loaders out there still containing a charge.

Internet search throws up some agreement with the oil but nothing definite. Some suggest water is only good as a temporary measure as when dried the powder will resume its explosive ability.
CC

CutlassCollector · 23rd September 2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

CC, you are going to post a pic of this sea service pistol, I hope!

Always like to see the naval stuff...and do be careful, as all have said. I've got an iron grenado with congealed black powder down the hole that I keep in a cool, dry place!

Hi Mark, Just a relatively common Belgian Sea Service pistol but I'll post a pic when I have the ball out and sitting beside it!
Meantime don't chuck that grenado at anyone. CC

Shakethetrees · 24th September 2014, 02:37 AM

OK.

I wet some BP with 3 in 1 oil this afternoon.

Tomorrow I will attempt to set it alight.

I will post the results.

M ELEY · 24th September 2014, 02:41 AM

Hello, CC. I have one of those as well. I'd be interested to know the markings on yours. I'm told they were exported to the Nordic countries, Britain and possibly Africa?? Mine has the standard ELG (Elgin) marking, but I seem to remember another. I'll have to look at it when I'm home again...

kronckew · 24th September 2014, 10:24 AM

oil and ammonium nitrate makes a very nasty explosive. google ' nitrate' and 'motor oil. then wait for NSA and/or homeland security/ATF to pay you a visit. the 1947 houston ship channel disaster was one of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever. 2300 tons of the stuff. wiki linky

i suspect 3in1 and potassium nitrate (saltpeter) would be similarly dangerous.

wear your saftey goggles justincase when you ignite it. you may also want to wear flameproof gloves as well. i didn't once, disposing of some black powder before i moved from alabama, i got 2nd degree burns on the fingers of my hand that held the match i lit a trail of BP with. it smarted. for weeks.

awaiting your results.

addendum: found a 1932 patent (US 1882853 A ) for black powder fuses using castor oil to slow down burning time. it noted that combustion propagation was 'unreliable' with more than 5% oil. it also recommended using a water emulsion of water and a miscable oil instead.

water or oil down the muzzle may or may not get past the ball sealing off access to the powder charge, injecting it into the pan or cap hole also may not work very well. never think, now it is safe so i can pound on it.

attached is a photo of a toolkit for a flintlock, the double helix ramrod tip was screwed on & used to extract the patch or patched ball. if that could not get sufficient purchase the the screwed tip that looks like an upside down wood screw was screwed into the lead projectile. if that failed, the whole barrel would need to be removed from the stock & the breech plug unscrewed to give access to remove the powder and ball. initial procedure would have been to re-prime the pan (or replace the percussion cap with a new one) & try again to fire it. in combat that whle procedure was off course impractical, so you'd drop the darn thing and pick one up from the nearest corpse of one of your companions who didn't need his anymore. or, if an officer, draw your sword.

in any case, NEVER point the muzzle at anything you hold dear. that of course includes never looking down the barrel muzzle. never put your hand's palm on the ramrod end to push it down, even a small squib discharge can spear you. a full discharge would put a rather larger hole in your hand. better to lose a couple finger tips.

fernando · 24th September 2014, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Mine has the standard ELG (Elgin)...

Those initials mean something different, Mark; E for Eprouvé (proofed) and LG for Liege
Definitely not Elgin

.

24th September 2014, 02:37 AM	#9
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	OK. I wet some BP with 3 in 1 oil this afternoon. Tomorrow I will attempt to set it alight. I will post the results. Attached Images

24th September 2014, 10:24 AM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,249	oil and ammonium nitrate makes a very nasty explosive. google ' nitrate' and 'motor oil. then wait for NSA and/or homeland security/ATF to pay you a visit. the 1947 houston ship channel disaster was one of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever. 2300 tons of the stuff. wiki linky i suspect 3in1 and potassium nitrate (saltpeter) would be similarly dangerous. wear your saftey goggles justincase when you ignite it. you may also want to wear flameproof gloves as well. i didn't once, disposing of some black powder before i moved from alabama, i got 2nd degree burns on the fingers of my hand that held the match i lit a trail of BP with. it smarted. for weeks. awaiting your results. addendum: found a 1932 patent (US 1882853 A ) for black powder fuses using castor oil to slow down burning time. it noted that combustion propagation was 'unreliable' with more than 5% oil. it also recommended using a water emulsion of water and a miscable oil instead. water or oil down the muzzle may or may not get past the ball sealing off access to the powder charge, injecting it into the pan or cap hole also may not work very well. never think, now it is safe so i can pound on it. attached is a photo of a toolkit for a flintlock, the double helix ramrod tip was screwed on & used to extract the patch or patched ball. if that could not get sufficient purchase the the screwed tip that looks like an upside down wood screw was screwed into the lead projectile. if that failed, the whole barrel would need to be removed from the stock & the breech plug unscrewed to give access to remove the powder and ball. initial procedure would have been to re-prime the pan (or replace the percussion cap with a new one) & try again to fire it. in combat that whle procedure was off course impractical, so you'd drop the darn thing and pick one up from the nearest corpse of one of your companions who didn't need his anymore. or, if an officer, draw your sword. in any case, NEVER point the muzzle at anything you hold dear. that of course includes never looking down the barrel muzzle. never put your hand's palm on the ramrod end to push it down, even a small squib discharge can spear you. a full discharge would put a rather larger hole in your hand. better to lose a couple finger tips. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 24th September 2014 at 11:20 AM.

19th September 2014, 09:46 PM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 368	Thanks for the oil advice guys I'll go with that and thanks Michael for the science. Regards, CC.

21st September 2014, 03:11 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	CC, you are going to post a pic of this sea service pistol, I hope! Always like to see the naval stuff...and do be careful, as all have said. I've got an iron grenado with congealed black powder down the hole that I keep in a cool, dry place!

21st September 2014, 04:26 PM	#4
JamesKelly Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Michigan, U.S.A. Posts: 108	Oil will render 19th & 20th century priming compound safe. Does anyone here know, in fact, that oil will keep corned black powder from igniting? Personally I rather doubt it. Black powder stays good for centuries. Try not to kill or cripple yourself. As a teen-ager I unloaded Grandfather's 20ga shotgun & an old Potsdam musket, doubt that I took proper precautions beyond avoiding the muzzle. Grampa was not pleased that his gun had been left loaded.

21st September 2014, 07:48 PM	#6
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	I will try to do a test this week and post my results.

21st September 2014, 08:51 PM	#7
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 368	Be careful with that! But a definitive answer would be good and I guess many people are interested in the result, especially as it seems likely that there are more muzzle loaders out there still containing a charge. Internet search throws up some agreement with the oil but nothing definite. Some suggest water is only good as a temporary measure as when dried the powder will resume its explosive ability. CC

24th September 2014, 02:41 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,196	Hello, CC. I have one of those as well. I'd be interested to know the markings on yours. I'm told they were exported to the Nordic countries, Britain and possibly Africa?? Mine has the standard ELG (Elgin) marking, but I seem to remember another. I'll have to look at it when I'm home again...