Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Miscellania
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th August 2014, 12:09 AM   #31
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,882
Default

That's a pretty clear statement of motivation Ariel.

I've often encountered this and I continue to find it very interesting.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th August 2014, 03:00 AM   #32
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,290
Cool

Weapons of conflict raised by desperate men in desperate times .
There's something to be said for that .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th August 2014, 02:23 PM   #33
Andrew
Member
 
Andrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
Default

I am an extremely "focused" collector: while I love to see, handle, read about every sort of weapon (cold, hot, edged, etc.) I only collect things from Continental SEA. Indeed, I am so focused, I typically eschew most Vietnamese weapons as they are, to my eye, more Chinese than SEA.

I have, over the years, acquired some nice pieces from other areas, particularly if they are interesting or under-priced. However, I rarely keep those things around very long--if something doesn't "belong" or "fit into" my existing collection, it makes me feel...uncomfortable.

Yes, this is likely a condition one would find in the DSM-V (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), but I am who I am.

One benefit of my compulsive collecting behavior, however, is I do enjoy collecting the entire spectrum of weapons from my favored region--plain, battle-weary examples happily reside alongside lavish beautiful things.
Andrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 03:24 PM   #34
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Here are a couple pics of pages from my coin album, pretty typical of the rest of it, a mixture of coins from far away places and mostly historic, with a weighting towards Indian hand strucks.

Not much that is of any real value, not much that is really old. But all a bit exotic.
Yeah, quite a difference in age between these interesting examples of yours and the early karshapanas i posted ... actualy the only pieces i keep since i quit collecting coins (no budget for collecting both early/silver/gold coins & antique weapons ).
It didn't occur to me that, at the age of your rupees, coins still were hand struck; my kignorance
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 04:24 PM   #35
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
Default

Andrew,
No reason to exchuse that you have chosen to collect within a relatively 'small' area :-).
So have I, as my wife many years ago explained to me that I should chose what to collect. I had Indian weapons a fantastic saif, and some beautiful shasquas, but the Indian colelction was by far the biggest, so I coose Indian weapons.
To collect weapons from a specific area means, that research is directed to this area only, and it gives you a very big knowledge about weapons from this area. Some restricts their collection even more, to maybe 15th to 18th century, and this gives an even more concentrated knowledge :-).
Jens
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2014, 06:35 AM   #36
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,882
Default

Fernando, I've been told by a couple of dealers that they're handstruck, but whether they are or not, I don't know enough to argue about.

My understanding is that this type of coin was made in a mint, the slugs of metal were placed in one die, and another die was placed on top of the slug, then it was struck, which resulted in the pattern appearing on both sides of the coin, and the lower die contained the sides ,thus giving the more or less regular shape.

But all this could be flim-flam, because I know nothing in this field.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2014, 02:10 PM   #37
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Fernando, I've been told by a couple of dealers that they're handstruck, but whether they are or not, I don't know enough to argue about.

My understanding is that this type of coin was made in a mint, the slugs of metal were placed in one die, and another die was placed on top of the slug, then it was struck, which resulted in the pattern appearing on both sides of the coin, and the lower die contained the sides ,thus giving the more or less regular shape.

But all this could be flim-flam, because I know nothing in this field.
I know nothing either but... yes, that was basicaly the idea; the slug was placed on the die, which had one of the coin patterns chiseled (high releaf) and the other pattern was engraved in a punch which was struck with a small sledgehammer. By the XVI century the screw press was invented in the West and made things easier ... and more mechanical, to say so. Whether this or a similar system spread to the East soonner or later, one would guess that by, say, the XVIII century, coin striking already involved some mechanic interference.

.
Attached Images
   
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2014, 05:43 PM   #38
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
... the slug was placed on the die, which had one of the coin patterns chiseled (high releaf) and the other pattern was engraved in a punch which was struck with a small sledgehammer. ..
Although in the case of Karshapanas another ancient method has to be considered: the so called punch coins. In such case the patterns were no proturding from the coin face but instead punched in.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2014, 01:02 PM   #39
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,882
Default

Fernando, everything you say is as I understand it, however, as it was explained to me, the open-sided lower die was not used with this Indian type, but rather a type of die that restrained the sides, resulting in a more even form.

In any case, however they were made, they're something I like, and although I know next to nothing about them, if they were still readily available, and still reasonably priced, I would still buy them.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2014, 10:23 PM   #40
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
Fernando, everything you say is as I understand it, however, as it was explained to me, the open-sided lower die was not used with this Indian type, but rather a type of die that restrained the sides, resulting in a more even form...
The rupees you have, yes.
But these ancient coins were shapeless even before being struck:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore...the_maury.aspx


Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
...In any case, however they were made, they're something I like, and although I know next to nothing about them, if they were still readily available, and still reasonably priced, i would still buy them...
Are you referring to (more rupees) or examples like the ones i posted ?
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2014, 12:19 AM   #41
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,882
Default

I'm talking about coins like the top 8 in the posted images.

My understanding of manufacture applies to these.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd September 2014, 02:40 PM   #42
Andrew
Member
 
Andrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,725
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
Andrew,
No reason to exchuse that you have chosen to collect within a relatively 'small' area :-).
So have I, as my wife many years ago explained to me that I should chose what to collect. I had Indian weapons a fantastic saif, and some beautiful shasquas, but the Indian colelction was by far the biggest, so I coose Indian weapons.
To collect weapons from a specific area means, that research is directed to this area only, and it gives you a very big knowledge about weapons from this area. Some restricts their collection even more, to maybe 15th to 18th century, and this gives an even more concentrated knowledge :-).
Jens
I'm quite happy in my "small" world, Jens...as I suspect you are.
Andrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th November 2014, 02:48 AM   #43
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

Hello Ian,
i'm not totally convinced with Cato's barung aging. i believe the second one you posted is older than 1930 (or 1920, for that matter). below are pictures of Panglima Unga and his compatriots. if you notice, Panglima Unga's barung appears to be what Cato would call a post 1930 piece, and so is the two gentlemen in the middle behind him.
as far as what is more appealing, i would say it depends. i started collecting wanting a nice barung. once i got a pretty decent one, i'd like to get a junggayan. after that, an ivory junggayan. and so on, and so forth. we have OCD, fellas. once we get what we want, we always strive for something else, lol
Attached Images
  
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.