New Jersey Ivory ban....

[Lee]

I have always despised laws and regulations that overreach whatever legitimate aims they have in an effort to facilitate easy, ignorant enforcement. The assault on genuine, legitimate antiques is despicable, as are the politicians who promulgate same. I find the arguments that such overreach will protect a single endangered wild animal entirely specious. I welcome well conceived and competently written laws and regulations that would protect these animals without such gratuitous overreach. I expect that these present laws and regulations will come under judicial scrutiny in the US in due course, as where they exceed legitimate aims they surely have ventured into the territory of illegal seizure.

[spiral]

Indeed Sajen pure vandalism.

I don't know enough about the US legal system to comment Lee, but from what you say this may be overturned?

If so your justice system works better than the UK... {not that that's difficult...}

I still rather think such laws will become the norm in the more advanced world. europe, US Oz etc. in time.

A law that targets current professional criminals & is properly enforced would be a better approach than turning every collector into a criminal if he passes on a genuine antique.

But I guess it easy to catch non professional or accidental criminals & pretend something efficient & meaningful is going on, to the electorate.

spiral

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by Lee

I expect that these present laws and regulations will come under judicial scrutiny in the US in due course, as where they exceed legitimate aims they surely have ventured into the territory of illegal seizure.

Lee, as soon as a wealthy collector with influence of some kind realizes that his or her collection is in danger of being labeled as illegal / unsellable etc we will see exceptions make for antiques which contain ivory, I have no doubt.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Lee, as soon as a wealthy collector with influence of some kind realizes that his or her collection is in danger of being labeled as illegal / unsellable etc we will see exceptions make for antiques which contain ivory, I have no doubt.

Well that's possible, all country's have corruptible or influenced politician's.

But hopefully it takes more than one rich man to change the state of law in the land of the free? At least a couple of dozen oil magnates, net Mongols & international arms dealers of missiles & other mass expense technology of destruction id hope! {Weve come a long way from a pointed stone & lumpy stick in the last 2000 years! }


Unsaleable shouldn't be a problem to the truly rich... they don't need to sell from there collection's & can still acquire more, even illegally if they so wish... with impunity probably, if they are so influential...

It us poorer collectors who have to decide whether to keep or sell, before laws make that decision for us.

In truth I made my choices a few years back , when I saw which way the wind was blowing.

spiral

[Lee]

There will be the connected rich collectors and the auction houses and others in the art trade who will hire the required legal talent to deal with this absurd situation. ... I hope.

[drac2k]

I wouldn't count on it ; I think that is what all of the Indian artifact collectors were saying ! While we are waiting for them to do something, the government(s), advance their agenda. It is about control ; each incremental step they take , each erosion of personal freedom, are rights lost ,never to be regained .
Hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Africans have died of Malaria because of the banning of DDT; it was said to have thinned the eagle eggshell.Does the math add up ? Is each eagle worth 100,00 lives? Last year the Norfolk Airport shredded 3 or 4 eagles,which it sucked through plane engines ;should we ban jets as well ? Each loss of a privilege has a "Butterfly Effect:"
"for the want of a nail a shoe was lost, for the want of a shoe, a horse was lost ............"

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Lee

There will be the connected rich collectors and the auction houses and others in the art trade who will hire the required legal talent to deal with this absurd situation. ... I hope.

Interestingly a few years ago a big auction house in the UK kept selling whole mounted Rhino horns even when customs said they shouldn't, they stated the would win in court when it came to it, arguing about legal definitions..

Instead of taking them to court within 6 months the Government just introduced even tougher & more detailed laws that they felt unable to argue against.

spiral

[Andrew]

Indeed.

And yet, antique ivory is so much more common and ubiquitous than rare rhino horn...

Hope springs eternal.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Indeed.

And yet, antique ivory is so much more common and ubiquitous than rare rhino horn...

Hope springs eternal.

Very true Andrew, us Europeans had wiped out c.80% of them by 1920.

And there more family based creatures rather than vast herds, that elephants once were.

Then if horn not stored properly over the years, it gets the eaten by the dreaded dermistids! {& of course always being consumed in old Chinese & Indian medicine.}

But the new range of American state laws seem to be allying ivory & rhino together?

Either way, as much as I would like nature to have a chance to recover a bit, {In truth not very likely to happen. } I sincerely hope true antiques are not destroyed, they are part of history & in a some cases stunning & amazing works of art, as well.

I fear some will be with badly written & enforced laws though.

spiral