New Jersey Ivory ban....

drac2k · 11th August 2014, 02:40 PM

I'm not sure that I would make a correlation between collecting ivory and the heinous physiological and mental addiction of heroine.
In the event that you are espousing the theory that collecting edge weapons is a compulsive behavior, then I would agree, I probably need an intervention .

spiral · 11th August 2014, 03:30 PM

Your correct that is a bit of a stretch... but us weapons collectors indeed ,the majority of collectors probably exhibit addictive, compulsive behaviour.

Some suggest that collecting is a modern twist on the ancient hunting instinct.

spiral

VANDOO · 12th August 2014, 06:54 AM

MANKIND DEVELOPED ART AS A WAY TO SHOW OFF HIS SKILL AND PERHAPS IMPRESS THE LADIES. IF THE WORK WAS GOOD ENOUGH A DEMAND WAS CREATED FOR IT AND COMPETITION WOULD ARISE. TRADE WAS ESTABLISHED EVEN BETWEEN TRIBES THAT WERE ENEMIES IN NORTH AMERICA AND NO DOUBT OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SOME TRIBES WERE BETTER AT MAKING CERTAIN SPECIALTY'S AND TOOK PRIDE IN THEIR CRAFTS. THE OTHERS COULD ONLY GET THESE ITEMS THRU TRADE OR WAR SO CERTAIN TIMES AND PLACES WERE SET ASIDE FOR SAFE TRADE BETWEEN TRIBES.
THE MAKERS OF THESE NEW IVORY LAWS ARE WELL FUNDED AND ADS ON TELEVISION AND RADIO ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING FOR DONATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC TO PURSUE THE EVIL IVORY COLLECTORS AND SELLERS IN AMERICA AND SAVE THE ELEPHANTS. IVORY COLLECTORS IN AMERICA CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE THE ELEPHANT BE KILLED OFF. BUT THE ORIENT CAN'T GET ENOUGH RAW IVORY TO SUPPLY ITS CARVING INDUSTRY. AMERICA HAS NOT IMPORTED RAW IVORY AND DOESN'T HAVE A IVORY CARVING INDUSTRY. EVERYTHING I HAVE COLLECTED PREDATES ALL LAWS AND BANS REGULATING IVORY. I NO LONGER COLLECT AND CAN NOT PASS ON THE ITEMS I HAVE HAD FOR YEARS WHAT IF ALL ETHNOGRAPHIC ART AND WEAPONS WERE REGULATED IN THE SAME WAY?
MAN HAS WORKED THE HIDES AND BONES OF THE THINGS HE HUNTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND IVORY FROM THE MAMMOTH AND OTHER ELEPHANTS WAS USED FOR TOOLS, JEWELRY AND ART UP UNTIL THE PRESENT.
THE IDEA OF MAKING ALL ART , TOOLS OR OBJECTS MADE OF IVORY OR HORN NO MATTER WHEN OR WHERE IT CAME FROM ILLEGAL DOES NOTHING TO SAVE EVEN ONE ELEPHANT. IF EVERY PIECE OF IVORY IN AMERICA WAS GATHERED FROM MUSEUMS AND PEOPLE AND BURNED TODAY IT WOULD NOT SAVE OR BRING BACK ONE ELEPHANT BUT A LOT OF ART AND MANS HERITAGE WOULD GO UP IN SMOKE NOT TO MENTION THE LOSS OF THE MONEY COLLECTORS AND MUSEUMS SPENT COLLECTING AND PRESERVING THESE WORKS OF ART.
COLLECTORS DON'T COLLECT IVORY BECAUSE ELEPHANTS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR WITH THE DESIRE TO KILL THEM OFF. BUT BECAUSE IVORY LIKE GOLD, SILVER, GEMS AND ALL OTHER THINGS CONSIDERED BEAUTIFUL AND OF WORTH NEED TO BE CHERISHED AND APPRECIATED. SHOULD WE BURN EVERYTHING AND ALL GO BACK TO THE TREES AND BECOME GRASS EATERS AS WELL, THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK SO. YOU CAN BE SURE THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED UNTIL THEY MAKE EVERYONE CONFORM TO THEIR WISHES AND MANY MORE WORTHLESS ILL CONCEIVED LAWS WILL BE WRITTEN AND PASSED.

I AM FOR THE BANNING OF ANY NEW IVORY THAT IS NOT LEGALLY HARVESTED ( FOR INSTANCE WHEN HERDS ARE CULLED BECAUSE OF OVERPOPULATION IN SOME RESERVES OR WHEN AN ANIMAL DIES. THE MONEY THUS GENERATED COULD THEN BE USED TO CARE FOR AND PROTECT THE ELEPHANT.
BUT I THINK WE SHOULD PRESERVE OLDER EXAMPLES OF ART AND DO WHAT IS PRACTICAL. FOR INSTANCE I DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO DESTROY OR BAN ALL OLD PIANOS BECAUSE OF IVORY KEYS.

HERE ARE A FEW ITEMS , ARE THEY ART OR SHOULD THEY BE BURNED TO PLEASE THE WRITERS OF SILLY LAWS? THE IBIS IVORY HANDLE IS FROM ANCIENT EGYPT, THE POWDER HORN IS PORTUGUESE THERE IS AN AFRICAN BUST, A JAPANESE CARVING CIRC. 1900, CHINESE PUZZLE BALL CARVED FROM A SOLID PIECE OF IVORY 10 BALLS ALL INSIDE OF EACH OTHER. CHINESE FIGURE, TWO RHINO HORN CUPS CARVED CIRC. 17TH TO 18 CENTURY. NONE OF THESE ARE MINE BUT IT DOES GIVE SOME IDEA OF THE BEAUTY AND COMPLEXITY OF THIS ART AND ALL ARE WAY BEFORE IVORY BANS AND LAWS EXISTED. FLY WHISK HANDLE IVORY COAST AFRICA, 2 DHA HANDLES

Rick · 12th August 2014, 03:51 PM

This is not a particularly new thing (ivory ban) here .
It will be national in no time . The auction houses in my state always post a disclaimer about shipping to California, now they will add N.J. to the list .

Our dear leader has already spoken to this on a national level, and is busily turning works of art into ivory dust .

Berkley · 12th August 2014, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Our dear leader has already spoken to this on a national level, and is busily turning works of art into ivory dust .

A mindset which is not restricted by state or national boundaries:

Quote:

The Duke of Cambridge wants all ivory in the royal collection at Buckingham Palace to be removed and destroyed, it is reported.
Days after the duke gave his backing to a campaign against elephant poaching, the leading primatologist Jane Goodall told the Independent on Sunday Prince William had told her he would "like to see all the ivory owned by Buckingham Palace destroyed".
The royal collection contains about 1,200 artefacts dating back hundreds of years.
During the past few years, Prince Charles has reportedly asked for all ivory items at his Clarence House and Highgrove homes to be removed from sight.
The Conservative MP Zac Goldsmith applauded the duke's stance, saying: "It's difficult to imagine a stronger symbol of the horrors of ivory than Buckingham Palace publicly destroying its own. Good for Prince William for pushing this."

The Guardian, Feb 17, 2014

Rick · 12th August 2014, 06:53 PM

Yeah, the movement seems to be world-wide .

spiral · 12th August 2014, 07:41 PM

Yes really sad if genuine antiques get destroyed... Strangely I think much was destroyed in China a few decades ago...

US is supposedly about the 4th largest user of ivory in the world... I guess due to population size & proportion of wealthy & the popular regard for hunting?

As for Zac Goldsmith applauding prince willy wanting to burn the Royal ivory collection, someone should point out its actually part of the National collection & not actually owned by the Royalty anymore... Id guess if he owned it he may be more reticent about burning it? Unless he really is dumb as well as ignorant...

I agree Rick... this is spreading & spreading fast.....will be worldwide in the so called civilised nations within 10 years at most Id guess. Maybe much sooner.

If you have nice old stuff , that you really like keep it, it may be forever, if not get rid of it before it becomes dangerous or illegal to do so.

spiral

12th August 2014, 06:54 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MANKIND DEVELOPED ART AS A WAY TO SHOW OFF HIS SKILL AND PERHAPS IMPRESS THE LADIES. IF THE WORK WAS GOOD ENOUGH A DEMAND WAS CREATED FOR IT AND COMPETITION WOULD ARISE. TRADE WAS ESTABLISHED EVEN BETWEEN TRIBES THAT WERE ENEMIES IN NORTH AMERICA AND NO DOUBT OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD. SOME TRIBES WERE BETTER AT MAKING CERTAIN SPECIALTY'S AND TOOK PRIDE IN THEIR CRAFTS. THE OTHERS COULD ONLY GET THESE ITEMS THRU TRADE OR WAR SO CERTAIN TIMES AND PLACES WERE SET ASIDE FOR SAFE TRADE BETWEEN TRIBES. THE MAKERS OF THESE NEW IVORY LAWS ARE WELL FUNDED AND ADS ON TELEVISION AND RADIO ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING FOR DONATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC TO PURSUE THE EVIL IVORY COLLECTORS AND SELLERS IN AMERICA AND SAVE THE ELEPHANTS. IVORY COLLECTORS IN AMERICA CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE THE ELEPHANT BE KILLED OFF. BUT THE ORIENT CAN'T GET ENOUGH RAW IVORY TO SUPPLY ITS CARVING INDUSTRY. AMERICA HAS NOT IMPORTED RAW IVORY AND DOESN'T HAVE A IVORY CARVING INDUSTRY. EVERYTHING I HAVE COLLECTED PREDATES ALL LAWS AND BANS REGULATING IVORY. I NO LONGER COLLECT AND CAN NOT PASS ON THE ITEMS I HAVE HAD FOR YEARS WHAT IF ALL ETHNOGRAPHIC ART AND WEAPONS WERE REGULATED IN THE SAME WAY? MAN HAS WORKED THE HIDES AND BONES OF THE THINGS HE HUNTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND IVORY FROM THE MAMMOTH AND OTHER ELEPHANTS WAS USED FOR TOOLS, JEWELRY AND ART UP UNTIL THE PRESENT. THE IDEA OF MAKING ALL ART , TOOLS OR OBJECTS MADE OF IVORY OR HORN NO MATTER WHEN OR WHERE IT CAME FROM ILLEGAL DOES NOTHING TO SAVE EVEN ONE ELEPHANT. IF EVERY PIECE OF IVORY IN AMERICA WAS GATHERED FROM MUSEUMS AND PEOPLE AND BURNED TODAY IT WOULD NOT SAVE OR BRING BACK ONE ELEPHANT BUT A LOT OF ART AND MANS HERITAGE WOULD GO UP IN SMOKE NOT TO MENTION THE LOSS OF THE MONEY COLLECTORS AND MUSEUMS SPENT COLLECTING AND PRESERVING THESE WORKS OF ART. COLLECTORS DON'T COLLECT IVORY BECAUSE ELEPHANTS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR WITH THE DESIRE TO KILL THEM OFF. BUT BECAUSE IVORY LIKE GOLD, SILVER, GEMS AND ALL OTHER THINGS CONSIDERED BEAUTIFUL AND OF WORTH NEED TO BE CHERISHED AND APPRECIATED. SHOULD WE BURN EVERYTHING AND ALL GO BACK TO THE TREES AND BECOME GRASS EATERS AS WELL, THERE ARE THOSE WHO THINK SO. YOU CAN BE SURE THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED UNTIL THEY MAKE EVERYONE CONFORM TO THEIR WISHES AND MANY MORE WORTHLESS ILL CONCEIVED LAWS WILL BE WRITTEN AND PASSED. I AM FOR THE BANNING OF ANY NEW IVORY THAT IS NOT LEGALLY HARVESTED ( FOR INSTANCE WHEN HERDS ARE CULLED BECAUSE OF OVERPOPULATION IN SOME RESERVES OR WHEN AN ANIMAL DIES. THE MONEY THUS GENERATED COULD THEN BE USED TO CARE FOR AND PROTECT THE ELEPHANT. BUT I THINK WE SHOULD PRESERVE OLDER EXAMPLES OF ART AND DO WHAT IS PRACTICAL. FOR INSTANCE I DON'T FEEL THE NEED TO DESTROY OR BAN ALL OLD PIANOS BECAUSE OF IVORY KEYS. HERE ARE A FEW ITEMS , ARE THEY ART OR SHOULD THEY BE BURNED TO PLEASE THE WRITERS OF SILLY LAWS? THE IBIS IVORY HANDLE IS FROM ANCIENT EGYPT, THE POWDER HORN IS PORTUGUESE THERE IS AN AFRICAN BUST, A JAPANESE CARVING CIRC. 1900, CHINESE PUZZLE BALL CARVED FROM A SOLID PIECE OF IVORY 10 BALLS ALL INSIDE OF EACH OTHER. CHINESE FIGURE, TWO RHINO HORN CUPS CARVED CIRC. 17TH TO 18 CENTURY. NONE OF THESE ARE MINE BUT IT DOES GIVE SOME IDEA OF THE BEAUTY AND COMPLEXITY OF THIS ART AND ALL ARE WAY BEFORE IVORY BANS AND LAWS EXISTED. FLY WHISK HANDLE IVORY COAST AFRICA, 2 DHA HANDLES Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 12th August 2014 at 05:29 PM.

11th August 2014, 02:40 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	I'm not sure that I would make a correlation between collecting ivory and the heinous physiological and mental addiction of heroine. In the event that you are espousing the theory that collecting edge weapons is a compulsive behavior, then I would agree, I probably need an intervention .

11th August 2014, 03:30 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Your correct that is a bit of a stretch... but us weapons collectors indeed ,the majority of collectors probably exhibit addictive, compulsive behaviour. Some suggest that collecting is a modern twist on the ancient hunting instinct. spiral

12th August 2014, 03:51 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	This is not a particularly new thing (ivory ban) here . It will be national in no time . The auction houses in my state always post a disclaimer about shipping to California, now they will add N.J. to the list . Our dear leader has already spoken to this on a national level, and is busily turning works of art into ivory dust .

12th August 2014, 06:53 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Yeah, the movement seems to be world-wide .

12th August 2014, 07:41 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yes really sad if genuine antiques get destroyed... Strangely I think much was destroyed in China a few decades ago... US is supposedly about the 4th largest user of ivory in the world... I guess due to population size & proportion of wealthy & the popular regard for hunting? As for Zac Goldsmith applauding prince willy wanting to burn the Royal ivory collection, someone should point out its actually part of the National collection & not actually owned by the Royalty anymore... Id guess if he owned it he may be more reticent about burning it? Unless he really is dumb as well as ignorant... I agree Rick... this is spreading & spreading fast.....will be worldwide in the so called civilised nations within 10 years at most Id guess. Maybe much sooner. If you have nice old stuff , that you really like keep it, it may be forever, if not get rid of it before it becomes dangerous or illegal to do so. spiral