An howitzer shell

fernando · 1st August 2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Adrian,

As this item of yours ...

???

adrian · 2nd August 2014, 07:56 AM

The item is of course Fernando's, though I would indeed be very happy if it was mine as I do not have one like it in that size. The term "grenade" during the period in which this item was most likely made, lets say 1790 to 1840, (though it could be argued to extend beyond these) was generally used to describe an explosive shell that was thrown by hand. The largest diameter hand grenade that I am aware of is the British Sea Service 6pr which is about 3 inches (75mm) in diameter. Therefore I would term the projectile, generally, as a Common Shell, there being nothing to distinguish it as a particular type of shell, such as for example Spherical Case Shot (later called Shrapnel). There were of course many different types of Common Shell.

fernando · 3rd August 2014, 02:42 PM

Thank you for your input, Adrian.
This item was also a good addition to my litlle collection ... which includes an example that came all the way from Austrália

.
I tend to forget that my emprical conversation in english is sometimes a bit unorthodox.
Having learnt the language outside school (self taught), i favour terms that are idiomaticaly valid in both languages; which sometimes doesn't work.
Apparently the attribution of the term grenade differs between languages.
The term shell, meaning originaly the hard outside covering (cuirasse) of an animal, had its idiomatic attribution extended to military lexicon in the english language , but not to others, i would say.
Over here, and not only, howitzers and mortars throw explosive projectiles which, in period military terminology, were called bombs, later called grenades, a term still used nowadays. Mortar greanades and hand grenades are terms dealt separately.
And a shell remains the cover of a clam, a crustacean, a mollusc, etc.
On the other hand, a solid shot is called here bala (bullit) a term derived from ball (french balle, italian palla).
In a way that an artillery force doesn't shell a position but, instead, bombards it.
I hope i have made myself understood

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3rd August 2014, 02:42 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for your input, Adrian. This item was also a good addition to my litlle collection ... which includes an example that came all the way from Austrália . I tend to forget that my emprical conversation in english is sometimes a bit unorthodox. Having learnt the language outside school (self taught), i favour terms that are idiomaticaly valid in both languages; which sometimes doesn't work. Apparently the attribution of the term grenade differs between languages. The term shell, meaning originaly the hard outside covering (cuirasse) of an animal, had its idiomatic attribution extended to military lexicon in the english language , but not to others, i would say. Over here, and not only, howitzers and mortars throw explosive projectiles which, in period military terminology, were called bombs, later called grenades, a term still used nowadays. Mortar greanades and hand grenades are terms dealt separately. And a shell remains the cover of a clam, a crustacean, a mollusc, etc. On the other hand, a solid shot is called here bala (bullit) a term derived from ball (french balle, italian palla). In a way that an artillery force doesn't shell a position but, instead, bombards it. I hope i have made myself understood . . Attached Images

2nd August 2014, 07:56 AM	#2
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 132	The item is of course Fernando's, though I would indeed be very happy if it was mine as I do not have one like it in that size. The term "grenade" during the period in which this item was most likely made, lets say 1790 to 1840, (though it could be argued to extend beyond these) was generally used to describe an explosive shell that was thrown by hand. The largest diameter hand grenade that I am aware of is the British Sea Service 6pr which is about 3 inches (75mm) in diameter. Therefore I would term the projectile, generally, as a Common Shell, there being nothing to distinguish it as a particular type of shell, such as for example Spherical Case Shot (later called Shrapnel). There were of course many different types of Common Shell.