Turkish sword with European influence?

ariel · 23rd November 2005, 06:58 PM

I agree with Ham: nothing to suggest later soldering of the European guard on the pre-existing Nimcha guars. This sword was likely born this way. Tremendously interesting example of a "fusion sword".
Let's not forget, however, that the movement went the other way as well: the Europeans liked Nimchas so much that they produced swords with a similar guard for a long time and when David was charged with the responsibility of designing a sword for the French Revolutionary guards, he used Nimcha as an example.
Bidirectional crosspollination (rather pompous but true definition).

Tim Simmons · 23rd November 2005, 07:46 PM

It is odd to see a slashing cavalry sword with a thrusting rapier type hilt but it looks like it was always made that way. It may well not be three centuries old. I can not think of many 17/18 century European cavalry swords with a rapier basket. Tim

Rick · 23rd November 2005, 07:49 PM

Why then could this not be an early Italian sabre rather than an Italianate style Nimcha ?
I'm sure there's an obvious answer; but I'm missing it .

Tim Simmons · 23rd November 2005, 07:59 PM

I am not an expert on European swords but I am sure this is not Italian craftmanship from the 1600s especially the sword of a wealthy man. To me it is North African 1800s why it has the rapier basket I do not know, If you look closely you can see one of the quillions has been braised back on and rather crudely. Tim

ariel · 24th November 2005, 01:36 AM

I think it has an obviously North African blade. I have similar blades on Beduin and Nimcha swords.

ham · 24th November 2005, 07:03 AM

Jens,
There is also a possibility this is a Swiss saber which was regripped at some point in North Africa; it is compellingly similar to a number of published examples.

Sincerely,

Ham

Jens Nordlunde · 24th November 2005, 01:44 PM

Ham, I don’t know enough about European swords to be able to tell. How is the false edge on the Swiss swords you have seen illustrated?

Ariel, the blades on the Beduin and Nimcha swords you have, could they be trade blades?

Jens

ariel · 25th November 2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Ham, I don’t know enough about European swords to be able to tell. How is the false edge on the Swiss swords you have seen illustrated?

Ariel, the blades on the Beduin and Nimcha swords you have, could they be trade blades?

Jens

Here they are. The Nimcha has an eyelash mark. They may be trade: far too uniform to derive from different localities.

23rd November 2005, 06:58 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree with Ham: nothing to suggest later soldering of the European guard on the pre-existing Nimcha guars. This sword was likely born this way. Tremendously interesting example of a "fusion sword". Let's not forget, however, that the movement went the other way as well: the Europeans liked Nimchas so much that they produced swords with a similar guard for a long time and when David was charged with the responsibility of designing a sword for the French Revolutionary guards, he used Nimcha as an example. Bidirectional crosspollination (rather pompous but true definition).

23rd November 2005, 07:46 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	It is odd to see a slashing cavalry sword with a thrusting rapier type hilt but it looks like it was always made that way. It may well not be three centuries old. I can not think of many 17/18 century European cavalry swords with a rapier basket. Tim

23rd November 2005, 07:49 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Why then could this not be an early Italian sabre rather than an Italianate style Nimcha ? I'm sure there's an obvious answer; but I'm missing it .

23rd November 2005, 07:59 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	I am not an expert on European swords but I am sure this is not Italian craftmanship from the 1600s especially the sword of a wealthy man. To me it is North African 1800s why it has the rapier basket I do not know, If you look closely you can see one of the quillions has been braised back on and rather crudely. Tim

24th November 2005, 01:36 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I think it has an obviously North African blade. I have similar blades on Beduin and Nimcha swords.

24th November 2005, 07:03 AM	#6
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Jens, There is also a possibility this is a Swiss saber which was regripped at some point in North Africa; it is compellingly similar to a number of published examples. Sincerely, Ham

24th November 2005, 01:44 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ham, I don’t know enough about European swords to be able to tell. How is the false edge on the Swiss swords you have seen illustrated? Ariel, the blades on the Beduin and Nimcha swords you have, could they be trade blades? Jens