Bone Dagger

Robert · 21st November 2005, 01:39 AM

I don't remember seeing anything like this posted before so I thought I'd post this piece for comments. Bone blade is 5-3/4 inches long and 1 inch wide at its widest point. Hilt is 5-1/2 inches long and is 1-1/2 inches in diameter and covered with a knotted netting (I'm not sure what the netting is made from). Underneath the netting is what looks like bundled reeds. There is a woven loop on the end of the hilt for either hanging or maybe to go around your wrist to help keep you from losing it if dropped. I have absolutely no idea of who or where this was made. It does seem to have some good age to. As usual all comments are welcome.

VANDOO · 21st November 2005, 02:06 AM

ITS A BONE DAGGER FROM NEW GUINEA, THEY ARE USUALLY MADE FROM CASSOWARY BIRD BONE BUT OCCASIONALY HUMAN BONE HAS BEEN USED. THE WOVEN FIBERS GIVE IT AWAY AS IT IS TYPICAL OF NEW GUINEA WORK. SOME HAVE FANCY CARVING AND CLAY HEADS WITH FACES YOURS APPEARS TO BE A OLD FUNCTIONAL ONE MADE FOR NATIVE USE.

Robert · 21st November 2005, 02:21 AM

Vandoo,
Thank you very much for the information. Do you have a guess as to its age?

VANDOO · 21st November 2005, 03:26 PM

IT IS OFTEN DIFFICULT TO TELL THE AGE ON A ITEM LIKE THIS EVEN IF YOU ARE HOLDING IT, AS THEY ARE CRUDELY MADE AND IF USED QUICKLY PICK UP A LOT OF DIRT,BODY OIL AND FOOD PRODUCTS,ECT. THIS MAKES THEM LOOK AS OLD AS THE CAVEMAN PRETTY QUICKLY IN THE TROPICAL ENVIORNMENT THEY COME FROM. THE BONE COULD HAVE BEEN OLD WHEN FASHIONED INTO A KNIFE OR FRESH BUT AQUIRED ITS COLOR, IT COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN BURIED TO COLOR IT WOOD CARVEINGS ARE OFTEN BURIED TO AGE THEM FOR SALE AS OLD ONES TO TOURISTS. JUST GUESSING I WOULD SUSPECT ITS PROBABLY IN THE LAST 50 YEARS OR SO UNLESS ITS BEEN IN SOMEONES COLLECTION FOR A LONG TIME.

Tim Simmons · 21st November 2005, 08:05 PM

I think Vandoo has said more or less all that can be said but I might add that even if the knife is not in general collector terms old, it is a nice real example. The weaving that covers the handle gives you an indication of the skill of the manufacturer and the effort is way above tourist work. I have had an eye out for the very same thing, the ones I have seen that are real, have not been as good as your example and at a really silly high price to my mind anyway. Tim

kai · 21st November 2005, 10:41 PM

Also keep in mind that vast areas of PNG got into contact with the outside world only after WW2 (or even much later). So many genuine examples are not older than, say, about 50 years.

Regards,
Kai

Robert · 23rd November 2005, 01:40 AM

My thanks to everyone in identifying this dagger. The person that I bought this from found it in a box of mixed items that he bought from an estate sale and like me knew absolutely nothing about it. My concern now is how to conserve this item. Should the weaving be treated and if so with what? I'm just guessing but I think a coat of Renaissance Wax would probably help to protect the blade itself. If anyone has had any experience with preserving items like this I would appreciate any advice you can give me. Again I thank you all.

Robert

Tim Simmons · 23rd November 2005, 09:53 AM

I would just leave it alone and make sure it stays dry. If the weaving is showing signs of rotting or is badly unravelling you could paint it carefully with watered down PVA. You would need to test your dilution to check that it does not dry leaving a to obvious bloom but if it is in quite good order do nothing . Tim

VANDOO · 23rd November 2005, 04:24 PM

I WOULD AGREE WITH TIM, JUST KEEP IT IN A COVERED DISPLAY (KEEPS OFF DUST), OUT OF DIRECT SUNLIGHT AND WATCH IT TO MAKE SURE SOME SORT OF INSECT DOSEN'T DECIDE ITS LUNCH (PUT IT ON A WHITE PAPER AND LOOK UNDER IT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE FOR DUST AND DROPPINGS). YOU CAN KEEP SOME SORT OF INSECT DETERANT IN CLOSED CASES ALSO.MICE WILL ALSO MAKE SHORT WORK OF SUCH THINGS.
FROM THE PICTURES THE WOVEN STRAP WHICH WILL BE THE MOST EASILY DAMMAGED PART, APPEARS FLEXABLE NOT STIFF AND BRITTLE SO IT WOULD NOT NEED ANYTHING TO PRESERVE IT YET.

Tim Simmons · 23rd November 2005, 04:34 PM

"VANDOO" he's the daddy

Tim

Robert · 23rd November 2005, 05:05 PM

Vandoo and Tim,
Thank you again for the help. I was already planning on putting this in a display box, I just didn't know if there was anything special that needed to be done other than that. I like the idea of the "white paper" to help in seeing any problems before they get out of hand. Again my thanks.

Robert

21st November 2005, 01:39 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Bone Dagger I don't remember seeing anything like this posted before so I thought I'd post this piece for comments. Bone blade is 5-3/4 inches long and 1 inch wide at its widest point. Hilt is 5-1/2 inches long and is 1-1/2 inches in diameter and covered with a knotted netting (I'm not sure what the netting is made from). Underneath the netting is what looks like bundled reeds. There is a woven loop on the end of the hilt for either hanging or maybe to go around your wrist to help keep you from losing it if dropped. I have absolutely no idea of who or where this was made. It does seem to have some good age to. As usual all comments are welcome. Attached Images

21st November 2005, 02:06 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS A BONE DAGGER FROM NEW GUINEA, THEY ARE USUALLY MADE FROM CASSOWARY BIRD BONE BUT OCCASIONALY HUMAN BONE HAS BEEN USED. THE WOVEN FIBERS GIVE IT AWAY AS IT IS TYPICAL OF NEW GUINEA WORK. SOME HAVE FANCY CARVING AND CLAY HEADS WITH FACES YOURS APPEARS TO BE A OLD FUNCTIONAL ONE MADE FOR NATIVE USE.

21st November 2005, 02:21 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Vandoo, Thank you very much for the information. Do you have a guess as to its age?

21st November 2005, 03:26 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS OFTEN DIFFICULT TO TELL THE AGE ON A ITEM LIKE THIS EVEN IF YOU ARE HOLDING IT, AS THEY ARE CRUDELY MADE AND IF USED QUICKLY PICK UP A LOT OF DIRT,BODY OIL AND FOOD PRODUCTS,ECT. THIS MAKES THEM LOOK AS OLD AS THE CAVEMAN PRETTY QUICKLY IN THE TROPICAL ENVIORNMENT THEY COME FROM. THE BONE COULD HAVE BEEN OLD WHEN FASHIONED INTO A KNIFE OR FRESH BUT AQUIRED ITS COLOR, IT COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN BURIED TO COLOR IT WOOD CARVEINGS ARE OFTEN BURIED TO AGE THEM FOR SALE AS OLD ONES TO TOURISTS. JUST GUESSING I WOULD SUSPECT ITS PROBABLY IN THE LAST 50 YEARS OR SO UNLESS ITS BEEN IN SOMEONES COLLECTION FOR A LONG TIME.

21st November 2005, 08:05 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I think Vandoo has said more or less all that can be said but I might add that even if the knife is not in general collector terms old, it is a nice real example. The weaving that covers the handle gives you an indication of the skill of the manufacturer and the effort is way above tourist work. I have had an eye out for the very same thing, the ones I have seen that are real, have not been as good as your example and at a really silly high price to my mind anyway. Tim

21st November 2005, 10:41 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Also keep in mind that vast areas of PNG got into contact with the outside world only after WW2 (or even much later). So many genuine examples are not older than, say, about 50 years. Regards, Kai

23rd November 2005, 01:40 AM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	My thanks to everyone in identifying this dagger. The person that I bought this from found it in a box of mixed items that he bought from an estate sale and like me knew absolutely nothing about it. My concern now is how to conserve this item. Should the weaving be treated and if so with what? I'm just guessing but I think a coat of Renaissance Wax would probably help to protect the blade itself. If anyone has had any experience with preserving items like this I would appreciate any advice you can give me. Again I thank you all. Robert

23rd November 2005, 09:53 AM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I would just leave it alone and make sure it stays dry. If the weaving is showing signs of rotting or is badly unravelling you could paint it carefully with watered down PVA. You would need to test your dilution to check that it does not dry leaving a to obvious bloom but if it is in quite good order do nothing . Tim

23rd November 2005, 04:24 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD AGREE WITH TIM, JUST KEEP IT IN A COVERED DISPLAY (KEEPS OFF DUST), OUT OF DIRECT SUNLIGHT AND WATCH IT TO MAKE SURE SOME SORT OF INSECT DOSEN'T DECIDE ITS LUNCH (PUT IT ON A WHITE PAPER AND LOOK UNDER IT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE FOR DUST AND DROPPINGS). YOU CAN KEEP SOME SORT OF INSECT DETERANT IN CLOSED CASES ALSO.MICE WILL ALSO MAKE SHORT WORK OF SUCH THINGS. FROM THE PICTURES THE WOVEN STRAP WHICH WILL BE THE MOST EASILY DAMMAGED PART, APPEARS FLEXABLE NOT STIFF AND BRITTLE SO IT WOULD NOT NEED ANYTHING TO PRESERVE IT YET.

23rd November 2005, 04:34 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	"VANDOO" he's the daddy Tim

23rd November 2005, 05:05 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Vandoo and Tim, Thank you again for the help. I was already planning on putting this in a display box, I just didn't know if there was anything special that needed to be done other than that. I like the idea of the "white paper" to help in seeing any problems before they get out of hand. Again my thanks. Robert