Packing, Shipping and Insurance

Antonio Cejunior · 18th November 2005, 09:53 AM

Hi Fred,

Please have patience. Packing is an art as I have learned many years ago with the people of the Gulbenkian Foundation in Lisbon, and without having enough information at the moment, depending on what the shipping list is, I cannot develop further information.

Please be patient

Mark · 18th November 2005, 12:46 PM

We still don't know how much material is coming from where, and likely there will one be a single answer to your question. While it showed FedEx's competence and care, the Masters of Fire exhibition is a case somewhat different case from ours, because only one piece was coming from each contributor. Still, FedEx ships elephants, so they can handle our swords (and will recommend the best way to package them), when that time comes.

To be honest, with respect to working on my own section, the shipping process itself is the thing I personally am least worried about. I am obsession over what we need to have in it and how to arrange it! I keep sending re-writes of our article to my poor collaborators before they even have a chance to revise the last one.

If you have ever known someone that has been in what is called a "12-step" program, you might have heard the Serenity Prayer (I hope I have this right):

Quote:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the strength to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

If you turn this around a little, you get Mark's Serenity Blessing:

Quote:

God, thank you for the serenity of not having to worry about things I don't have to, and not worrying excessively about the things I do, and the ability to appreciate the difference.

Antonio Cejunior · 19th November 2005, 11:15 AM

Wow

Amen.

God, grant me the grace to become a lawyer when I grow up, so
I can write these kinda things and what not?

Okay, jokes off now. I agree. I will help with suggestions when the time comes.
One has to assess first how many final swords one is shipping.

Mark · 24th February 2006, 07:34 PM

Hi, folks.

Now that we all are turning to the packing and shipping process, I've started to focus on some issues. Mostly, what packing materials to use?

A big issue that has to be kept in mind is weight. Naturally, a fiberglass or aluminum gun case or a wooden crate would be nice and safe, but those are going to weight too much.

For the Masters of Fire exhibition, I understand that FedEx set a 5kg per package weight limit, and that is very likely going to happen for History of Steel as well. That means most of us will have to divide our contributions into several packages. Bear in mind that the Museum is paying for all of this, and the shipping alone is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. It is going to be crucial to strike the right balance between protection and weight.

We have spoken a little about using PVC pipe, which would be very good, but I am afraid about the weight factor. It was used successfully by many of the Masters of Fire smiths, but they each had only one sword to ship. I am going to buy some and do a trial package of three or four bundled pipes to see how much it weighs. Rick has found some stuff that looks very sturdy and is not too expensive (again I don't have the link right now, but I'll add it), but I still wonder at the weight factor. If I can I'll get some of that this week-end, too, and do a weight trial. Added: the pipe is called ADS and is $4.00 per foot in 8" diameter

Now, we all love our collections and want the safe, but let's be honest. Haven't we all used cardboard most of the time for shipping, even internationally? And how many problems have their been, at least when the internal packing was careful? Personally, I have not had a single problem in the course of dozens of cardboard-packed swords. The only packing failures I have had have been when I or the other guy used a recycled box/tube that was weakened from prior use.

Antonio has put up a page with some suggestions on how to pack in carboard tubes. I'll add in the link later because I don't have it on this computer. Please consider this way of doing it, at least for the swords & knives. I am pretty sure that I will use this packing when it comes down to it. It will keep money in the budget for things like catalogue printing and promotion, which will be key to the exhibition's success. Obviously, axes, shields, armor, puppets (yes, I have two Burmese marionettes with swords that we might use!), etc., need a different treatment.

But in any case, let's get the ideas out here for discussion on the forum, so we can share the knowledge and experience and find the best way to do this.

Mark

Link to pipe manufacturer: http://www.ferguson.com/

Spunjer · 25th February 2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

I understand that FedEx set a 5kg per package weight limit

is the weight definite? i was talking to rick about the tube issue. my problem is i can't find anyone here in this bustling metropolis of chillicothe that carry anything similar to that. i will be going on midnite shift this coming week, not to mention, a big competition for me on march 4(next weekend), and getting ready for that big time. needless to say, it's gonna be a hectic week.
as for packaging, i found a box at work, 50"x10"x10", rated at 165lbs/sq in. i was gonna line it with masonite, then place all the swords in it (individually bubble wrapped and peanut packed).
my other option was gonna run me around $919.00 (pvc pipe, caps)...

if i order that on the link provided, will i have enuff time to get it? when is this gonna ship anyways?

Antonio Cejunior · 25th February 2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

is the weight definite? i was talking to rick about the tube issue. my problem is i can't find anyone here in this bustling metropolis of chillicothe that carry anything similar to that. i will be going on midnite shift this coming week, not to mention, a big competition for me on march 4(next weekend), and getting ready for that big time. needless to say, it's gonna be a hectic week.
as for packaging, i found a box at work, 50"x10"x10", rated at 165lbs/sq in. i was gonna line it with masonite, then place all the swords in it (individually bubble wrapped and peanut packed).
my other option was gonna run me around $919.00 (pvc pipe, caps)...

if i order that on the link provided, will i have enuff time to get it? when is this gonna ship anyways?

Hi Spunjer and everybody else,

Let me share my experience.

1. I have tens of boxes, simple cardboxes for swords sent through the last ten years through FedEx to me. Never had I one single accident of any kind.

Here's a quick shot of some:

Presently this package below, another cardoboard box is coming my way like this:

on my instructions.

Now, because of the quantity involved, 125 parcels more or less, at an average maximum of 5 kilos per sword x US$135 one way, we obtain the sum of US$16.875 one way and that is why FedEx did not want to sponsor, because they would be sponsoring a total of US$33.750.

2. Any of us knows that a Katana cannot weight more than 1.3 kgs or it is not usable. This leaves 3.7 kgs for packing, meaning the the packing weight is almost triple the contents weight.

3. I am speaking about my experience. But that does not mean that FedEx will not inform all agencies and will not coordinate it for us. That is why I have double asked you your addresses.

Quote:

as for packaging, i found a box at work, 50"x10"x10", rated at 165lbs/sq in. i was gonna line it with masonite, then place all the swords in it (individually bubble wrapped and peanut packed

4. I think I must explain something Spunger. FedEx is not a transporation company. It is a Courier, with limit sizes.

You might face the No-no from FedEx or they will charge so much that no one will be comfortable.

I sent instructions and no one asked many questions although Rick was at hand to help.

5. Physics tells us that if you bind together 4 cardboard tubes or 3, the forces exerted are absorved by the tubes and if bound together like this

they are more than solid.

6. I will not take the responsibility of saying that you should use this or that. I sent you suggestions.
I'm saying that if you use a light PVC or cardboard tube it will not be harmed because International Air Courier uses platforms where they place everything in palettes.

Mark made an appeal because I was/am very busy, and I just hope you all gentleman understand that since the beggining we said that this was made by everyone, and this is part of the collective process.

My shipping experience, including Tang Dynasty statuettes and Large Tang horses and I was trained at the world's third largest foundation, the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation in Portugal. I am sharing what I know and I said that the moment you imobilize a sword inside a tube with a ring made of bubble wrap, the sword will be very secure. But ultimately I will not take any responsibility on how you choose to ship.

The instructions I sent are here, once more:
http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...structions.htm

We will pay the shipments as there is no other way. But we made our budget when the negotiations failes based on the ratio of one sword = almost 3 times packing weight, resulting in those 5 kilos I mentioned as a rule.

I can't share my own international experience or imposed it to anyone of you. Your contributions are the reason for this exhibition. If all of you wish to ponder and use ingenuity, that's fine. There are also many administrative processes that are inside red tape that is necessary, so I am just filling you all in, in this issue.

Thank you.

Rick · 25th February 2006, 04:17 PM

Antonio , you show in your illustration four tubes taped together ; presumably the parcel would be four swords (one per tube) ; now this parcel as shown would have one waybill , correct ?

The question I must ask is that with the 5 kilo weight limit wouldn't the four tubes taped together exceed five kilos by quite a bit ?

If this is the case should we then opt to ship more and lighter packages rather than fewer and heavier packages ?

If this has already been covered then please excuse me I can be somewhat dense at times ; sometimes I need things spelled out more clearly .

Rick

24th February 2006, 07:34 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Some packing issues Hi, folks. Now that we all are turning to the packing and shipping process, I've started to focus on some issues. Mostly, what packing materials to use? A big issue that has to be kept in mind is weight. Naturally, a fiberglass or aluminum gun case or a wooden crate would be nice and safe, but those are going to weight too much. For the Masters of Fire exhibition, I understand that FedEx set a 5kg per package weight limit, and that is very likely going to happen for History of Steel as well. That means most of us will have to divide our contributions into several packages. Bear in mind that the Museum is paying for all of this, and the shipping alone is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. It is going to be crucial to strike the right balance between protection and weight. We have spoken a little about using PVC pipe, which would be very good, but I am afraid about the weight factor. It was used successfully by many of the Masters of Fire smiths, but they each had only one sword to ship. I am going to buy some and do a trial package of three or four bundled pipes to see how much it weighs. Rick has found some stuff that looks very sturdy and is not too expensive (again I don't have the link right now, but I'll add it), but I still wonder at the weight factor. If I can I'll get some of that this week-end, too, and do a weight trial. Added: the pipe is called ADS and is $4.00 per foot in 8" diameter Now, we all love our collections and want the safe, but let's be honest. Haven't we all used cardboard most of the time for shipping, even internationally? And how many problems have their been, at least when the internal packing was careful? Personally, I have not had a single problem in the course of dozens of cardboard-packed swords. The only packing failures I have had have been when I or the other guy used a recycled box/tube that was weakened from prior use. Antonio has put up a page with some suggestions on how to pack in carboard tubes. I'll add in the link later because I don't have it on this computer. Please consider this way of doing it, at least for the swords & knives. I am pretty sure that I will use this packing when it comes down to it. It will keep money in the budget for things like catalogue printing and promotion, which will be key to the exhibition's success. Obviously, axes, shields, armor, puppets (yes, I have two Burmese marionettes with swords that we might use!), etc., need a different treatment. But in any case, let's get the ideas out here for discussion on the forum, so we can share the knowledge and experience and find the best way to do this. Mark Link to pipe manufacturer: http://www.ferguson.com/ Attached Images Last edited by Mark Bowditch; 24th February 2006 at 09:14 PM. Reason: I mistyped the weight -- 5kg NOT 50kg! Also added links and tube info

25th February 2006, 04:17 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Question ? Antonio , you show in your illustration four tubes taped together ; presumably the parcel would be four swords (one per tube) ; now this parcel as shown would have one waybill , correct ? The question I must ask is that with the 5 kilo weight limit wouldn't the four tubes taped together exceed five kilos by quite a bit ? If this is the case should we then opt to ship more and lighter packages rather than fewer and heavier packages ? If this has already been covered then please excuse me I can be somewhat dense at times ; sometimes I need things spelled out more clearly . Rick

18th November 2005, 09:53 AM	#1
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Hi Fred, Please have patience. Packing is an art as I have learned many years ago with the people of the Gulbenkian Foundation in Lisbon, and without having enough information at the moment, depending on what the shipping list is, I cannot develop further information. Please be patient

19th November 2005, 11:15 AM	#3
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Wow Amen. God, grant me the grace to become a lawyer when I grow up, so I can write these kinda things and what not? Okay, jokes off now. I agree. I will help with suggestions when the time comes. One has to assess first how many final swords one is shipping.