Another restoration question - help me, experts!

S.Workman · 30th May 2014, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Just a couple of questions of my own. What are you using for an acid solution to clean the blade? Are you following specific instructions for you process that you found on this forum or somewhere else on the internet? Without a very clear and detailed step-by-step of your process it is difficult to know exactly what to tell you. Anyway, i would not apply warangan over any rust.
Photographs of your work in progress would also be helpful.

Hello David, thanks for responding. I am in fact using instructions given me by Mr. Maisey, and supplemented by data from this site. My solution is vinegar, approximately 50%, with twice a days scrubbing with a hard bristle toothbrush. I will post some photos when I get home.

S.Workman · 30th May 2014, 08:14 PM

Hmmmm….I am having some trouble uploading pictures, once I have them sized properly, they just don't show up in the upload pictures window. It's too bad, they say a picture is worth a thousand words….
Any ideas about my rust? In the pejeten, if I am using the proper term, the appearance of this rust is instantaneous upon removal from the vinegar solution, and the process worsens as the keris dries, whether it is allowed to dry straight from the wash, or rinsed thoroughly and then dried or allowed to dry. Eventually the entire blade is dusted with this rust.

David · 30th May 2014, 08:49 PM

First a disclaimer…i am, by no means, an "expert" in the staining of keris. I have done, perhaps, a dozen or so blades, usually to satisfactory results (though my standards and expectations may be low), though often enough had a result that just wasn't acceptable. I believe Alan will tell you it is not unusual to have to stain a blade more than once to get a reasonable result.
I have always used pineapple juice as a cleaning bath an i use that solution straight. So i have no experience with using diluted vinegar. One thing you might try, if you feel that your vinegar must be diluted, is to try using distilled water. It is possible that your water might have a high iron content or some other mineral that is creating such a quickly appearing rust.

Take a good look here to see if you are uploading images correctly.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

S.Workman · 30th May 2014, 09:52 PM

OK, my iPad was the problem. Here is an image of the keris, with rust on the ascendant. If I took time-lapse pics, the whole thing would be orangey red in 5 minutes, but a submersion for just a second in the vinegar eliminates the effect. I use spring water for the dilution, but even so that seems like a heck of a lot of iron oxide to have in water, at any rate you would think you could taste that much in a quart of water, and you can't.

David · 30th May 2014, 11:33 PM

I might still try distilled water or a full strength vinegar with no water added to it at all to see if it is still a problem.

S.Workman · 31st May 2014, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I might still try distilled water or a full strength vinegar with no water added to it at all to see if it is still a problem.

I think I still need to rinse the vinegar off before applying the warangan (I hope I am using this term correctly), and then I am back to square one. Is it possible that this keris is meant to be cleaned and oiled, with no treatment?

kai · 31st May 2014, 10:53 AM

Quote:

I think I still need to rinse the vinegar off before applying the warangan (I hope I am using this term correctly), and then I am back to square one. Is it possible that this keris is meant to be cleaned and oiled, with no treatment?

No, just go ahead! Much of this is trial and error until you've gained enough experience.

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 31st May 2014, 12:21 AM

I was expecting something quite a bit lighter in color from your description .

Is it warm enough where you are to stain right now ?
Which method are you planning to use ?

S.Workman · 31st May 2014, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I was expecting something quite a bit lighter in color from your description .

Is it warm enough where you are to stain right now ?
Which method are you planning to use ?

My picture is quite bad, I was hoping to convey the rust effect rather than the color (which would be altered by my treatment in any event). This weekend looks rainy where I am, but warm. If it looks like I will get a few hours window and the humidity blows over, I will try a stain, using the As2O3 method since I was able to get the required material. That won't happen if I don't get some good advice on how to proceed with the creeping rust issue, since I won't waste the material or time on something that is sure to fail, which I think would be the case trying to stain over this rust. We will have to see, if nothing else restoring these two keris has been an exercise in patience.

kai · 31st May 2014, 10:48 AM

Quote:

I might still try distilled water or a full strength vinegar with no water added to it at all to see if it is still a problem.

I'm with David. While I don't think that the water is the issue here, I strongly recommend to utilize DI water for diluting things - a gallon of pure water is cheap enough to have around at home. Spring and, even more so, well water can have really funny effects!

Regards,
Kai

30th May 2014, 09:52 PM	#4
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	OK, my iPad was the problem. Here is an image of the keris, with rust on the ascendant. If I took time-lapse pics, the whole thing would be orangey red in 5 minutes, but a submersion for just a second in the vinegar eliminates the effect. I use spring water for the dilution, but even so that seems like a heck of a lot of iron oxide to have in water, at any rate you would think you could taste that much in a quart of water, and you can't. Attached Images

30th May 2014, 08:14 PM	#2
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	Hmmmm….I am having some trouble uploading pictures, once I have them sized properly, they just don't show up in the upload pictures window. It's too bad, they say a picture is worth a thousand words…. Any ideas about my rust? In the pejeten, if I am using the proper term, the appearance of this rust is instantaneous upon removal from the vinegar solution, and the process worsens as the keris dries, whether it is allowed to dry straight from the wash, or rinsed thoroughly and then dried or allowed to dry. Eventually the entire blade is dusted with this rust.

30th May 2014, 08:49 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	First a disclaimer…i am, by no means, an "expert" in the staining of keris. I have done, perhaps, a dozen or so blades, usually to satisfactory results (though my standards and expectations may be low), though often enough had a result that just wasn't acceptable. I believe Alan will tell you it is not unusual to have to stain a blade more than once to get a reasonable result. I have always used pineapple juice as a cleaning bath an i use that solution straight. So i have no experience with using diluted vinegar. One thing you might try, if you feel that your vinegar must be diluted, is to try using distilled water. It is possible that your water might have a high iron content or some other mineral that is creating such a quickly appearing rust. Take a good look here to see if you are uploading images correctly. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

30th May 2014, 11:33 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I might still try distilled water or a full strength vinegar with no water added to it at all to see if it is still a problem.

31st May 2014, 12:21 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I was expecting something quite a bit lighter in color from your description . Is it warm enough where you are to stain right now ? Which method are you planning to use ?