Kris hilt problems, solution anybody?

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I will most certainly post pictures if I can manage it. I also intend to re-do the job I did finishing another keris, so tomorrow should be a two off weather permitting.

I am quoting myself to report failure on this pair of keris. One of them I now have serious doubts about needing a wash with arsenic, I think it needs to be acid washed and etched. There is no trace of pamor at all. The other one needed the arsenic wash to bring up the pamor, but it came out even worse than the first time. I think the problem is that I used bottled lime juice - it was not from concentrate, its the real thing, but I don't think the acid was concentrated enough to put the arsenic into solution. I would experiment more, but it will have to wait.

[David]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I am quoting myself to report failure on this pair of keris. One of them I now have serious doubts about needing a wash with arsenic, I think it needs to be acid washed and etched. There is no trace of pamor at all. The other one needed the arsenic wash to bring up the pamor, but it came out even worse than the first time. I think the problem is that I used bottled lime juice - it was not from concentrate, its the real thing, but I don't think the acid was concentrated enough to put the arsenic into solution. I would experiment more, but it will have to wait.

Using warangan is a delicate and tricky process sometimes requiring multiple tries to get satisfactory results. Perhaps you can tell us more about your process. I am not sure if you are following directions you found on this site or somewhere else, but it is important that your blade has been completely cleaned of all previous warangan first, brought down to what people call a "white" blade through soaking in a mild acidic bath and scrubbing the blade clean. I have used pineapple juice in the past. I would indeed recommend fresh limes and laboratory quality arsenic (As2 O3). Weather is also an important factor. The process doesn't work well in cold and i like to work outdoors in open shade on a bright sunny day, but Alan might have some better advice for you on this as he has far more experience with the process than i do.

[A. G. Maisey]

In my experience, nothing but freshly squeezed tahitian limes will provide the fluid that you need.

In Jawa they are not called Tahitian limes, but that's what they are sold as in Oz. In my previous house I had my own tree and harvested and prepared the juice when the limes came on, then I saved the juice in the deep freeze immediately, this worked OK too.

You need to squeeze the limes, then strain the juice, then filter through clean cloth, I use an old, worn linen handerchief.

As David has said, keris staining is a very delicate process, and not real easy to get a decent result. As with any skill, it takes time to learn.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my experience, nothing but freshly squeezed tahitian limes will provide the fluid that you need.

In Jawa they are not called Tahitian limes, but that's what they are sold as in Oz. In my previous house I had my own tree and harvested and prepared the juice when the limes came on, then I saved the juice in the deep freeze immediately, this worked OK too.

You need to squeeze the limes, then strain the juice, then filter through clean cloth, I use an old, worn linen handerchief.

As David has said, keris staining is a very delicate process, and not real easy to get a decent result. As with any skill, it takes time to learn.

I am sure that has a lot to do with it, also my arsenic is not what it should be. I am using artists orpiment, which is arsenic trisulphide. It ought to be arsenic trioxide, but I found an old materia medica book online which details how to convert it by roasting. Since the orpiment is one tenth the price of normal arsenic trioxide, this makes sense, but it's tricky work and not the safest. If I am pleased with the results, I will take the time to detail the process, but if it doesn't work, I will have to buy the right stuff, and it's not cheap.

[David]

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I am sure that has a lot to do with it, also my arsenic is not what it should be. I am using artists orpiment, which is arsenic trisulphide. It ought to be arsenic trioxide, but I found an old materia medica book online which details how to convert it by roasting. Since the orpiment is one tenth the price of normal arsenic trioxide, this makes sense, but it's tricky work and not the safest. If I am pleased with the results, I will take the time to detail the process, but if it doesn't work, I will have to buy the right stuff, and it's not cheap.

That sounds like more trouble than it's worth and a safety issue as well. I recommend that you purchase the arsenic trioxide if you have a source for it. I bought a gram of it for $25 some a few years ago and still have about half that supply. It goes a long way.

[S.Workman]

Originally Posted by David

That sounds like more trouble than it's worth and a safety issue as well. I recommend that you purchase the arsenic trioxide if you have a source for it. I bought a gram of it for $25 some a few years ago and still have about half that supply. It goes a long way.

I can't find a supply, but I have abandoned the attempt to roast it. The hindu materia medica stated that those who roast orpiment don't have a long life. It ended up being sketchy and a big potential pain. I presently have two keris disassembled, and I may just put them back together with a good oiling and wait for a more propitious time. My weather is frequently bad, and this arsenic thing is a big drag for me.

[David]

I am glad to here that you are abandoning your "roasting" idea, but i don't think you need to give up altogether if you really want to pursue this. Arsenic trioxide is difficult to obtain, but not impossible. BTW, i was wrong about amounts. I actually bought a 25 gm. bottle some years ago for $25. But there was a hazardous transport fee and the final cost came to just under $50. I just looked on line and found 100 gm. supplies selling for about $60 (plus hazard fee). Considering how much you use in the process that isn't really too expensive. I don't want to make a commercial announcement here, but try googling "arsenic trioxide for sale".
I have spent plenty of time in Vermont and i know that you definitely get a few weather windows of opportunity up there…