Jambiya Scabbard

[Richard G]

Thank you gentlemen, for explaining this. I now get the idea, especially having gone back to some references I should have checked earlier, but:

The King Faisal Centre catalogue (page 56) has a pair of Al-Ahsa daggers described as "Doojaniyan" (meaning a pair?), but with the "chequered" wiring which Mr Alnakkas suggests is SKSA.

Richardson and Dorr (page 451) has a khunjar with a bu Sa'idi hilt but in a scabbard with the radiating diamond pattern, described as Omani.

Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia (page 82) shows a "typical Omani khanjar...Ibri(?)" which this thread would probably place in SKSA, particularly as it is on a Yemeni style belt.

Ruth Hawley's photo of a khanjar "probably made in the Sharqiyah" is remarkably similar to Stu's, but with "chequered" wiring and on an Omani style belt.

Also Ruth Hawley, in her narrative says "what can be said, however, is that the the modern geometric design and the diamond pattern so frequently seen on Omani silver probably came from Sanaa...and originated with Jewish silversmiths there. In Oman these designs are found extensively on Nizwa work, Sur and some work from Ibri. ...The most likely provenance of a hirz with geometric designs or applique diamond shapes is Nizwa."

So exceptions, conundrums and misattributions rule the roost! It makes life so much more interesting.
Thank you all very much
Richard

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Thank you gentlemen, for explaining this. I now get the idea, especially having gone back to some references I should have checked earlier, but:

The King Faisal Centre catalogue (page 56) has a pair of Al-Ahsa daggers described as "Doojaniyan" (meaning a pair?), but with the "chequered" wiring which Mr Alnakkas suggests is SKSA.

Richardson and Dorr (page 451) has a khunjar with a bu Sa'idi hilt but in a scabbard with the radiating diamond pattern, described as Omani.

Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia (page 82) shows a "typical Omani khanjar...Ibri(?)" which this thread would probably place in SKSA, particularly as it is on a Yemeni style belt.

Ruth Hawley's photo of a khanjar "probably made in the Sharqiyah" is remarkably similar to Stu's, but with "chequered" wiring and on an Omani style belt.

Also Ruth Hawley, in her narrative says "what can be said, however, is that the the modern geometric design and the diamond pattern so frequently seen on Omani silver probably came from Sanaa...and originated with Jewish silversmiths there. In Oman these designs are found extensively on Nizwa work, Sur and some work from Ibri. ...The most likely provenance of a hirz with geometric designs or applique diamond shapes is Nizwa."

So exceptions, conundrums and misattributions rule the roost! It makes life so much more interesting.
Thank you all very much
Richard

Hi Richard,
As you can see from the references you quote here, identification and origins of different styles are varied depending on who's description you are referring to.
This is also applicable here on the Forum as it must be remembered that opinions expressed here are just that---OPINIONS, and we have all probably used printed matter to arrive at our various decisions.
Those who live in the particular countries where these items originate also are only expressing opinions, as many of the items discussed are a blend of different styles. Concrete identification IMHO can only come from WELL DOCUMENTED SOURCES.
I have the King Faisal book in my library, and as far as the description "DOOJANIYAN" is concerned, I have interpreted it to be the TYPE of Jambiya and not to do with a pair. The King Faisal Center surely must be reasonably well informed as to correct terminology.
Stu

[russel]

Perhaps this is a rather mundane question from a novice, but to satisfy my curiosity: what would be a fair estimate of the age of this scabbard?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Thank you gentlemen, for explaining this. I now get the idea, especially having gone back to some references I should have checked earlier, but:

The King Faisal Centre catalogue (page 56) has a pair of Al-Ahsa daggers described as "Doojaniyan" (meaning a pair?), but with the "chequered" wiring which Mr Alnakkas suggests is SKSA.

Richardson and Dorr (page 451) has a khunjar with a bu Sa'idi hilt but in a scabbard with the radiating diamond pattern, described as Omani.

Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia (page 82) shows a "typical Omani khanjar...Ibri(?)" which this thread would probably place in SKSA, particularly as it is on a Yemeni style belt.

Ruth Hawley's photo of a khanjar "probably made in the Sharqiyah" is remarkably similar to Stu's, but with "chequered" wiring and on an Omani style belt.

Also Ruth Hawley, in her narrative says "what can be said, however, is that the the modern geometric design and the diamond pattern so frequently seen on Omani silver probably came from Sanaa...and originated with Jewish silversmiths there. In Oman these designs are found extensively on Nizwa work, Sur and some work from Ibri. ...The most likely provenance of a hirz with geometric designs or applique diamond shapes is Nizwa."

So exceptions, conundrums and misattributions rule the roost! It makes life so much more interesting.
Thank you all very much
Richard

Salaams Richard G. You aren't kidding !! A Great post by the way !!
Unpicking some of the narrow differences is a bit of a Houdini act but the references your references are superb... The Ruth Hawley is a bit blurred in my copy but her narrative cannot be questioned..The Richardson and Dorr item is tantalizing and difficult to place but is Omani...Rightaway I have pointed to little documentation on the al hasa thus I hope that is to be done by someone in that region...It certainly makes for an interesting puzzle...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

So to be clear~ The two regions I have compared are Muscat and the Asir which was in Yemen prior to about 1920. The link appears to be from trade as the regions main port at Jazzan has dominated Red Sea trade for centuries and is on the Muscat to Zanzibar sea route.

In terms of references Ruth Hawley produced a brilliant but small pamphlet which for decades was all we had here to go by...The Richardson and Dorr, however, is a magnificent heavily backed and funded Cultural Foundation masterwork of colosal proportions, by comparison. Ruth correctly addresses in broad terms the parameters possible on certain patterns and objects spanning a huge area. The terms of reference in respect of time periods are understandably very, very broad. Both references are in my view perfectly balanced in their own right..

I have no idea about the Elgood nor have I got access to the Saudia document. Further more; any reference to a third region with similar weapons should be investigated but until that is separately assessed until those facts are known thus until then it is suggested that the Al Hasa material be looked at and logged but for now that part of the equation (if there is one) may be pencilled in the margin.

What seems clear is the regional hub effect of the great sea port of Jazzan and the fact that Oman controlled Zanzibar/neighboring parts of coastal Africa thus the sea route included trade from Muscat and Zanzibar through Jazzan for materials and likely slaves, Ivory, Rhino Horn, materials and provisions etc.

The Muscat Khanjar, therefor, is perhaps not a surprising element in the weaponry of such a hand in hand partner in trade.....but a very interesting conundrum.

See #143 at The Omani Khanjar thread for confirmation of this detail.

[Richard G]

Found this. described as "Bedouin, Riyadh, 1964".
The radiating lozenge pattern on the scabbard can clearly be seen. The pattern of the hilt is a little more difficult to distinguish. Unfortunately, being worn by a bedouin, I presume it cannot be concluded the dagger came from Riyadh.
Regards
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Richard G

Found this. described as "Bedouin, Riyadh, 1964".
The radiating lozenge pattern on the scabbard can clearly be seen. The pattern of the hilt is a little more difficult to distinguish. Unfortunately, being worn by a bedouin, I presume it cannot be concluded the dagger came from Riyadh.
Regards
Richard

Salaams Richard G. This weapon is worn by a Bedouin gentleman from the Asir region... The hilt is typically "Bedouin style" rounded at the pommel but probably started life as a TEE shaped pommel. The rest of the weapon is as for the Habaabi, Abha, Asir style. The region previously of Yemeni ownership ..pre circa 1921 ...then KSA.

see #15 for

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5512947198

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/4336633417

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5780340287

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5780340299

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/4318547823

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Kindly view http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...899#post170899