Jambiya Scabbard

[Richard G]

You know, on second thoughts I think it could be the silver fittings from an Omani or Saudi Khunjar put onto a leather scabbard, presumably not in Oman or they would have done it properly. I don't now think the suspension strip is missing; I think it was probably never there, on this scabbard.
Mr Allnakkas and Ibrahim, are you saying the locket and chape are Saudi work, and not Omani? I know many "Habbabi" khunjars have this style of fitting but so does the Omani Khanjar below from The Omani Khanjar thread. How do you tell the difference?. Is it the workmanship or the proportions? I ask because I would like to know.
Beat wishes
Richard

[A.alnakkas]

Jambiyas can be used in different region and often repaired/fixed using methods different from its place of origin.

The khanjar scabbard you show is identical to Ehsa work (which is very similar to South Saudi work but with minor differences.) and I know of few examples that are even provenanced to Ehsa makers and users.

The leather is very different in this one, it looks quite intact on the area where the leather strap (that has 2 rings in front and 1 ring on each side) so maybe its an old unorthodox restoration that had a strap over the leather. This is supported by the fact that some rings remain on the bottom and those cannot be placed this way without a strap and 4 more rings.

[A.alnakkas]

this example is very interesting. It could be a 9 ringer example which is uncommon but exists.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Richard G

You know, on second thoughts I think it could be the silver fittings from an Omani or Saudi Khunjar put onto a leather scabbard, presumably not in Oman or they would have done it properly. I don't now think the suspension strip is missing; I think it was probably never there, on this scabbard.
Mr Allnakkas and Ibrahim, are you saying the locket and chape are Saudi work, and not Omani? I know many "Habbabi" khunjars have this style of fitting but so does the Omani Khanjar below from The Omani Khanjar thread. How do you tell the difference?. Is it the workmanship or the proportions? I ask because I would like to know.
Beat wishes
Richard

Salaams Richard G Absolutely ..That picture is The Muscat Khanjar "form" see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14878 #113 of which I wrote;

The Muscat Khanjar
With cloth belt and money container worn on the belt.(often 2) The Muscat Khanjar another example from Ruth Hawleys masterwork Omani Silver.

It is typically made with a TEE shaped hilt and the main body of the scabbard displays the same ring formation as the Royal Khanjar and must surely have been the main influence on Sheherazade who designed the Royal Khanjar hilt matching it to a 7 ringer Scabbard in similar fashion...in about 1850.

I am unable to ID the leather scabbard although A.alnakkas identifies it as potentially Ehsa which I go along with.. The silver work is made in the Asir region but follows the essential geometry of the Muscat Khanjar that must have arrived there by sea trade..and stuck!

The greater of the tricks in ID are deciding which is which and that is even more difficult without the dagger... and in this case when parts only...appear on a non original Asir/Ehsa scabbard beneath...I would go with the flow and having seen the Asir examples plus the leather scabbard it indicates from the Saudia region (previously in Yemen pre 1920) my feeling is that the silver parts are from the Habaabi style...yet as you correctly must be thinking... wheres the proof? The fact is thats all we have ... and like a dead body missing its vital fingerprints and head! we are left with the hypothesis which I hope holds water.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Richard G]

Thank you, Mr Alnakkas and Ibrahim, but I regret to say I still haven't understood this.
Ehsa? could I please ask where this is?
Is it Al Hasa?, which in my view would be eastern Saudi Arabia.
Ibrahim, you seem to have concluded that the leather work in the original post could be Ehsa yet the silver work remains Southern Saudi Arabia. However I got the impression Mr Alnakkas was referring to the silver work. Am I wrong?
If not, do I conclude that "Habaabi" type khunjars or jambiyas could be either Southern (Asir) or Eastern (Ehsa) Saudi Arabian?
Sorry about this.
Regards
Richard

[A.alnakkas]

Hello

Yes Ehsa is Alhasa I am using my accent again >.> sorry.

The silver work is from Alhasa, some swordmakers still exist there too!

I included an example from my collection. An identical, provenanced example I know of in a Saudi collection also shows that these are made in alHasa.

The ones made in Southern KSA are very similar but there are subtle differences. The silver wire wrapping on the cloth part is not circular like the shown example, but checkered (will provide photos) and the scabbard chape is upturned on southern examples.

[A.alnakkas]

Southern Saudi examples from DaveS collection:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18091

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello

Yes Ehsa is Alhasa I am using my accent again >.> sorry.

The silver work is from Alhasa, some swordmakers still exist there too!

I included an example from my collection. An identical, provenanced example I know of in a Saudi collection also shows that these are made in alHasa.

The ones made in Southern KSA are very similar but there are subtle differences. The silver wire wrapping on the cloth part is not circular like the shown example, but checkered (will provide photos) and the scabbard chape is upturned on southern examples.

An example of an Al Ahsa Khanjar from my collection.
Richard....In answer to your question at #5 above regarding the difference ....the diamond shaped decorations in my experience do not appear on Omani work and are typical of Saudi/Yemeni scabbard decoration. If you look at the pic of the Omani "Royal" Khanjar at #2 above you will see that the diamond decoration is absent.
Stu

[russel]

In error I posted the above twice. Can't delete this message.
Moderators: is there a way to do this?

[russel]

Thanks for all this amazing information guys. I had no idea this item would illicit such a detailed discussion, I admire (and am humbled by) your scholarship. This is outside my collecting field(s), so other than the scabbard itself I have nothing to contribute to the discussion. Other than to thank you all, and enjoy reading the thread.

Thanks again,
Russel

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

An example of an Al Ahsa Khanjar from my collection.
Richard....In answer to your question at #5 above regarding the difference ....the diamond shaped decorations in my experience do not appear on Omani work and are typical of Saudi/Yemeni scabbard decoration. If you look at the pic of the Omani "Royal" Khanjar at #2 above you will see that the diamond decoration is absent.
Stu

Salaams khanjar 1, There appear to be two regions in Saudia with similar work;

1. Alhasa which is the old Al Bahrayn region in the East of Saudia...whose work has not yet been catalogued.

2. The region I have been talking about that is way down south on the Red Sea and with a Yemeni border...and that work has been aligned to the Muscat Khanjar through Muscat -Jazzan -Zanzibar trade.

I write only about the latter region where the daggers are known as Habaabi and centred on Abha in the Asir. ;

Regarding the silver diamond shaped rectangles # 5 above has them. Also see the Omani khanjar thread at #63 #113 and more importantly the Muscat Khanjar style from which the Habaabi came ..at # 143. What tends to be the case with Habaabi is that the hilt tend to be fatter as does the crown(Quba)...and the body has a tendency to be slimmer. I say tendency as its not always evident...thats what makes these weapons such a conundrum occasionally. I find them easy to distinguish when they are accompanied by the regions belt style or other markings (emblems) or sometimes the traditional regional work knife and by and the above factors and by the greater turn in the scabbard and by the "typical" use of a wide central hilt ring with above and below a trefoil arrangement with a large button at the base ..the largest and central leaves leaves pointing toward and extending under the wide central ring. See below examples~

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5512947198

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/4336633417

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5780340287

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlesfred/5780340299

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mytripsmypics/4318547823

It should be remembered that these were not copied from the Royal Omani saaidiyyah style(circa 1850...Sheherazad) but from the earlier Muscat Khanjar form.

If you look at #17 of The Omani Khanjar it shows the architypal Muscat Khanjar which does have the diamond decorations (though slightly blurred) and interestingly the curve in that particular hilt is more pronounced than normal Omani work. I believe the Asir... Habaabi version simply reflects those elements, though, it has developed slight idiosyncracies over the past couple of hundred years since its migration.

So regarding the diamond shaped silver rectangles.. Did that arrive with the Muscat Khanjar? Looking to Omani Silver by Ruth Hawley and the Robertson and Dorr publication...There are many examples of this diamond shaped or silver rectangle work on Hirz lucky charm boxes and I think that is where the style originates and since it is ancient (from the Greek) and reported on by General Nearchos apparently...thus the roots of the design are unquestionable...and as you say the Abha (Habaabi) weapons do often have that diamond shaped addition....which as I noted above are a direct take off/copy from the original Muscat Khanjar style.


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Richard G]

Thank you gentlemen, for explaining this. I now get the idea, especially having gone back to some references I should have checked earlier, but:

The King Faisal Centre catalogue (page 56) has a pair of Al-Ahsa daggers described as "Doojaniyan" (meaning a pair?), but with the "chequered" wiring which Mr Alnakkas suggests is SKSA.

Richardson and Dorr (page 451) has a khunjar with a bu Sa'idi hilt but in a scabbard with the radiating diamond pattern, described as Omani.

Elgood's Arms and Armour of Arabia (page 82) shows a "typical Omani khanjar...Ibri(?)" which this thread would probably place in SKSA, particularly as it is on a Yemeni style belt.

Ruth Hawley's photo of a khanjar "probably made in the Sharqiyah" is remarkably similar to Stu's, but with "chequered" wiring and on an Omani style belt.

Also Ruth Hawley, in her narrative says "what can be said, however, is that the the modern geometric design and the diamond pattern so frequently seen on Omani silver probably came from Sanaa...and originated with Jewish silversmiths there. In Oman these designs are found extensively on Nizwa work, Sur and some work from Ibri. ...The most likely provenance of a hirz with geometric designs or applique diamond shapes is Nizwa."

So exceptions, conundrums and misattributions rule the roost! It makes life so much more interesting.
Thank you all very much
Richard