Interesting Tulwar Sword With Ottoman Turkish Blade

[CharlesS]

Interesting stuff Runjeet, and that is some suit the prince is wearing!!

This certainly coincides with some earlier comments.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Its an interesting sword you have, and worth researching.
Jim is right, the hilt is Rajasthani, but the decoration has nothing to do with Bidri work.
Susan Stronge: Bidri Ware, inlaid metalwork from India. Victoria and Albert Museum 1985.

[Emanuel]

Hello,

Jim, I believe bidriware originated in Bidar, on the border of modern day Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. It would have been part of the Nizam's Hyderabad State.

Runjeet, when I was in Hyderabad I heard that the Ottoman Sultan had high hopes at the turn of the 20th century for the marriages with the Nizam's family as it would provide access to enormous wealth to fund the Empire's modernization and renewal. For context, the 8th Nizam's fortune was estimated at ~$200 billion in the 1960s, making him something like the 6th richest man in history.

Similarly, the Nizams wanted the link to the Empire and the Sultanate, before its abolishment.

I do recall seeing Ottoman kilij in the Nizam's arms collection
.

Charles, I don't know how this ties into Baroda State and I don't want to push the Hyderabad angle too much if it's a dead end, but it illustrates India's ready access to Ottoman blades.

Emanuel

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks guys, and Jens thank you for the correction on the bidri suggestion.
I have always had problems in understanding some of these processes and metallurgy etc. Actually I thought that the bidri process was alternate to koftgari as it was black against silver as opposed to koftgari being gold.

I find that in the Wiki entry it is an blackened alloy of zinc and copper where patterns are carved into the darkened metal and silver in inlaid by being hammered into the grooves carved by stylus. Apparantly the soil indigenous to regions around Bidar (where the technique originated in 13th c.) is mixed with ammonium chloride leaving the bright silver against a matte black background.

It has been mentioned to me that in the case of this hilt, it is silver koftgari, not Bidri work .

I understand that koftari is gold metal hammered into grooves , but bidri is silver hammered into grooves.

Is there some better explanation as to what the differences are? If bidri is silver against black background and silver koftgari is silver over a black background, what is different?

Emanuel, as you have well noted, the presence of Ottoman influence was prevalent in Mughal courts, and diplomatically oriented arms must have certainly been well known. What is most interesting is this thoroughly British seal added to this remarkable blade.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Jim,
Have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidriware
In any way the hilt is not decorated in Bidri - no way. Come to think of it, I cant remember to have seen a tulwar hilt decorated in Bidri.
Could be that I have not seen enough tulwar hilts.
Best
Jens

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jens,
That was exactly the reference I looked at. So then this is not bidri work on this hilt nor does it occur on hilts especially tulwars.......and this would be 'silver koftgari'? If you have not seen bidri on tulwars.....then that is the final word as far as I'm concerned.......nobody knows tulwars like you do!!!

It sounds like the difference between bidri and silver koftgari is similar to that of tom-ay-toe and tom-ah-toe, but as I note, these particulars are outside my field.

All the best,
Jim

[Emanuel]

So it is koftgari, that explains the thick raised look of the silver.

Jens and Jim, you've forgotten this tulwar with bidri handle.

There were a few in the Chowmahalla Palace collection.

Emanuel

[Jens Nordlunde]

Emanuel,
Yes I had forgotten your old thread, but in the time gpne I have learned a thing or two, and I dont think your hilt is bidri.
Jens

[Richard G]

Bidri is the black alloy, Bidriware is decorated bidri. This is normally done by inlaying silver gold or brass. To do this you need to cut into the bidri and force the decorative metal into the depression. Most bidriware is polished so that the surface of the bidri and the inlay are flush, but I understand Lucknow and Poona made bidriware where the inlay stood proud. I believe bidri hilts are out there but it is quite brittle and hence such hilts would be decorative only.
Koftgari is gold or silver laid onto another metal, almost invariably steel. This is done by hatching the surface of the steel and beating the silver or gold onto it so that the hatching grips the overlay. Usually gold or silver wire is used, but sheet is also possible. With skillful burnishing most of the hatching can be removed so that the result looks like an inlay. However using a loupe will often reveal traces of the hatching. As you can imagine it is also possible to combine both inlay and koftgari to various degrees, to the point where the distinction is decidedly blurred.
Hope this helps
Regards
Richard
PS. The believe the virtue of Bidri is that it does not corrode or taint water and so was used for huqqa bases etc.