Bali keris ?

[Sajen]

Hello,

I would guess also Bali or Lombok for this blade, but not sure.

Regards,
Detlef

[GIO]

Java North coast ?

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

Java North coast ?

Gio, do you mean the blade or the mendak?

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm not prepared to offer any opinion on point of origin on the basis of the photo, but I will remark that it is more than a little unusual to find pamor work of this nature in a Balinese blade, particularly an older Balinese blade.

Yes, the blade does have a polished surface, but so did Javanese blades in the distant past. If this keris came into Europe a long time ago it might well be Javanese.

The pamor work is very, very refined work, its the quality I expect to see in one of the better Madura blades of the current era.

Possibly this keris requires more than a cursory examination before we can attempt to fix point of origin.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I'm not prepared to offer any opinion on point of origin on the basis of the photo, but I will remark that it is more than a little unusual to find pamor work of this nature in a Balinese blade, particularly an older Balinese blade.

Yes, the blade does have a polished surface, but so did Javanese blades in the distant past. If this keris came into Europe a long time ago it might well be Javanese.

I suppose that is why i was leaning towards Lombok. I have an old tangkis blade which i also believe is from Lombok (i believe you looked at photos of it once and also thought so), though admittedly the pamor work isn't quite this fine and complex. I also have another Bali/Lombok blade that is somewhat similar in dhapur and over all appearance to this one. So putting the two together, Lombok seemed very possible for me.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, if --- and I do mean "if" --- this blade has Balinese connections, it is certainly more likely to be Lombok than Island of Bali, but I just can't get past that pamor work. I'd need to handle it before I'd be game enough to give an opinion.

Just recently I was looking at a number of fairly ordinary keris that were collected in the last half of the 19th century , direct from old Malaya, Sumatera, Jawa. Very few, if any of these keris have the heavily textured surface that we have come to expect from Jawa and other keris, most would have presented a surface not dissimilar to a Bali blade if they were given a sympathetic clean and stain.

I myself have a few old Javanese blades that went to Holland pre-1800. All these keris have the polished surface that we're used to seeing on Bali blades.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, if --- and I do mean "if" --- this blade has Balinese connections, it is certainly more likely to be Lombok than Island of Bali, but I just can't get past that pamor work. I'd need to handle it before I'd be game enough to give an opinion.

I was wondering if you might give a more extensive response on the pamor work itself Alan. Is it simply because it is tangkis, or is it the types of pamor patterns that don't jive with you? Or is it the quality of execution that doesn't seem correct? Again i ask because i have a tangkis blade i have been led to believe is probably of Bali/Lombak origin, though the two patterns are not the same pamor as this one.
I think that there is no question that the surface finish alone is not enough to place this blade in Bali. Certainly old Jawa keris that left the island long ago can have this smooth finish and there are many examples of Lombok keris with rough finishes.

[GIO]

Originally Posted by David

Gio, do you mean the blade or the mendak?

Apologize for the late answer, David.
I intended to mean both the blade and the mendak, but mine was only an hypothesis, after excluding other options.