African dagger. Completely stumped

chregu · 13th April 2014, 06:12 PM

hello together

'm not quite sure such knives've seen in dancers.
I think there were dervish dances.

blue lander · 15th April 2014, 02:38 AM

Thanks for the leads everyone.

What's the etiquette for brass blades? Should I clean this one up or leave the patina on it like I would with a steel blade?

blue lander · 18th June 2014, 03:01 PM

Another one of these knives went up for auction, so I bought it. The seller says it's from the Maghreb, but who knows how he came to that attribution. That would sync up with it being a dervish knife, though.

It more or less looks the same as the one I have, I'll compare the dimensions when it arrives in the mail. I assume the grip's hamster bone like the last one. Judging from how poorly carved it is, it must have been made back when it wasn't a very valuable material.

spiral · 19th June 2014, 09:15 PM

To me they look like a tourist version of a Reguibat knife from southern Morocco, Mauritania, Mali etc.

spiral

blue lander · 20th June 2014, 03:43 PM

Are there any pictures of there of the "non-tourist" version of this knife? Google images doesn't come up with anything that looks similar to these.

blue lander · 1st July 2014, 05:57 PM

New one just came in today, I've attached pictures of it next to my other one. As you can see it's a bit smaller. The overall style is the same with some minor variations, and the carving on the hilt is even more careless than on my other one.

The hilt on my old one is yellowish and a little translucent, the hilt on the new one is whiter and totally opaque. Both pass the "hot needle" test. The blade on my old one is almost black, the blade on the new one is as bright and shiny as a new penny. I take this to mean that my new one was more recently made than my old one. So whatever culture that produced these must have a tradition of making them rather than some weird "one off".

Shakethetrees · 11th July 2014, 05:19 AM

I have one close to identical to the two you posted. I am in the middle of a big move and will post as soon as find it.

I have always felt it is culturally related to a flyssa- the blade shape and workmanship are too close to coincidental. But, I have been mistaken before, so....

David · 18th August 2014, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

I assume the grip's hamster bone like the last one. Judging from how poorly carved it is, it must have been made back when it wasn't a very valuable material.

Are you assuming this is ivory? I would think something like camel bone would be much more likely, still not a particularly valuable material.

blue lander · 18th August 2014, 05:32 PM

I'm no expert of course. I did the hot needle test and the material doesn't burn/singe/melt at all. Also it's surprisingly heavy and feels cold to the touch like a stone. And it doesn't have the little black dots/streaks you see in old bones.

I'm sure parallel development is the explanation here. I just thought the similarities were very interesting, especially since these two items seem to have more in common with each other than they do with other swords/knives from their respective regions.

David · 18th August 2014, 06:58 PM

I'm no expert either Blue, but i think this camel bone hilt looks very similar to the material in the hilt from post #10.

blue lander · 18th August 2014, 07:22 PM

You're right, they do look identical. Perhaps it is camel bone. If I ever try to sell it I'll definitely categorize it as such.

I have a pipe with a camel bone shaft and it feels like regular bone. This one feels more like a rock.

18th June 2014, 03:01 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Another one of these knives went up for auction, so I bought it. The seller says it's from the Maghreb, but who knows how he came to that attribution. That would sync up with it being a dervish knife, though. It more or less looks the same as the one I have, I'll compare the dimensions when it arrives in the mail. I assume the grip's hamster bone like the last one. Judging from how poorly carved it is, it must have been made back when it wasn't a very valuable material. Attached Images

1st July 2014, 05:57 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	New one just came in today, I've attached pictures of it next to my other one. As you can see it's a bit smaller. The overall style is the same with some minor variations, and the carving on the hilt is even more careless than on my other one. The hilt on my old one is yellowish and a little translucent, the hilt on the new one is whiter and totally opaque. Both pass the "hot needle" test. The blade on my old one is almost black, the blade on the new one is as bright and shiny as a new penny. I take this to mean that my new one was more recently made than my old one. So whatever culture that produced these must have a tradition of making them rather than some weird "one off". Attached Images

11th July 2014, 05:19 AM	#7
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	African dagger I have one close to identical to the two you posted. I am in the middle of a big move and will post as soon as find it. I have always felt it is culturally related to a flyssa- the blade shape and workmanship are too close to coincidental. But, I have been mistaken before, so....

13th April 2014, 06:12 PM	#1
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hello together 'm not quite sure such knives've seen in dancers. I think there were dervish dances.

15th April 2014, 02:38 AM	#2
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Thanks for the leads everyone. What's the etiquette for brass blades? Should I clean this one up or leave the patina on it like I would with a steel blade?

19th June 2014, 09:15 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	To me they look like a tourist version of a Reguibat knife from southern Morocco, Mauritania, Mali etc. spiral

20th June 2014, 03:43 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Are there any pictures of there of the "non-tourist" version of this knife? Google images doesn't come up with anything that looks similar to these.

18th August 2014, 05:32 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	I'm no expert of course. I did the hot needle test and the material doesn't burn/singe/melt at all. Also it's surprisingly heavy and feels cold to the touch like a stone. And it doesn't have the little black dots/streaks you see in old bones. I'm sure parallel development is the explanation here. I just thought the similarities were very interesting, especially since these two items seem to have more in common with each other than they do with other swords/knives from their respective regions.

18th August 2014, 06:58 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,209	I'm no expert either Blue, but i think this camel bone hilt looks very similar to the material in the hilt from post #10. Attached Images

18th August 2014, 07:22 PM	#11
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	You're right, they do look identical. Perhaps it is camel bone. If I ever try to sell it I'll definitely categorize it as such. I have a pipe with a camel bone shaft and it feels like regular bone. This one feels more like a rock.