Question on earliest use of powder horn

Matchlock · 10th April 2014, 05:30 PM

Hi Eric,

I don't know (but am curious to know!) what illustrations of a powder horn of the late 1400's you're referring to exactly.

The earliest sources of period artwork known to me are two colored drawings by the Swiss historian Diebold Schilling, from his Berner Chronik of 1483 (top attachments).
On an internet site for private photo sharing, I found the attached images of a stone sculpture representing an arquebusier with his arquebus and octagonally shaped powder horn, dated early 16th century and labeled to be part of a cathedral in Chartreuse, France.
The web, however, does not identify such a city, just a French mountain range of that name.

The latest documents of the use of long cow horns, by then fitted with a dosing mechanism comprising both an iron nozzle and sprung cut-off, are of ca. 1530:

- representations of Landsknechte (mercenaries) on a series of Brussels tapestries depicting scenes from the Battle of Pavia, 1525
- a painting by Melchior Feselen, Ingolstadt/Bavaria, called The Batttle of Alesia, dated 1533 (two attachments at the bottom).

Cow horns pressed flat after softened by hot water stayed in use from ca. 1590 to 1620, and then again around 1700 to 1750, with many of them easily identifiable as originally belonging to wheellock guns: often their bodies are combined with a spanner.

Please read my thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=alesia

For more information on this topic, also see my thread
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=powder+flasks - thanks a lot to Marcus for linking it!

Best,
Michael
(on returning home from hospital)

Eric Slyter · 15th April 2014, 11:36 AM

Hi Matchlock

Yes, the one you posted from 1483 is the one I was referring to.

I did read through the other threads but didn't find what I was looking for. My interest is the late 1300s, which I realize is earlier than reliable information provides for.

Matchlock · 15th April 2014, 06:25 PM

Absolutely, Eric,

The oldest datable sources of period artwork depicting powder horns - or, generally speaking, any kind of receptacles for keeping gun powder - are as 'young' as the 1480's (by Diebold Schilling, see my post above).
This is why I set up the thesis that the sidebags worn by everybody up to ca. 1600 served as the first 'receptacles' for powder and ball as well before horns entered the scene:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=powder+ball

In the 'Maximilian' period, around 1500, they were called 'pulvertaschen' (powder bags).

Best,
Michael

10th April 2014, 05:30 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Eric, I don't know (but am curious to know!) what illustrations of a powder horn of the late 1400's you're referring to exactly. The earliest sources of period artwork known to me are two colored drawings by the Swiss historian Diebold Schilling, from his Berner Chronik of 1483 (top attachments). On an internet site for private photo sharing, I found the attached images of a stone sculpture representing an arquebusier with his arquebus and octagonally shaped powder horn, dated early 16th century and labeled to be part of a cathedral in Chartreuse, France. The web, however, does not identify such a city, just a French mountain range of that name. The latest documents of the use of long cow horns, by then fitted with a dosing mechanism comprising both an iron nozzle and sprung cut-off, are of ca. 1530: - representations of Landsknechte (mercenaries) on a series of Brussels tapestries depicting scenes from the Battle of Pavia, 1525 - a painting by Melchior Feselen, Ingolstadt/Bavaria, called The Batttle of Alesia, dated 1533 (two attachments at the bottom). Cow horns pressed flat after softened by hot water stayed in use from ca. 1590 to 1620, and then again around 1700 to 1750, with many of them easily identifiable as originally belonging to wheellock guns: often their bodies are combined with a spanner. Please read my thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=alesia For more information on this topic, also see my thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=powder+flasks - thanks a lot to Marcus for linking it! Best, Michael (on returning home from hospital) Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 10th April 2014 at 11:36 PM.

15th April 2014, 06:25 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Absolutely, Eric, The oldest datable sources of period artwork depicting powder horns - or, generally speaking, any kind of receptacles for keeping gun powder - are as 'young' as the 1480's (by Diebold Schilling, see my post above). This is why I set up the thesis that the sidebags worn by everybody up to ca. 1600 served as the first 'receptacles' for powder and ball as well before horns entered the scene: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=powder+ball In the 'Maximilian' period, around 1500, they were called 'pulvertaschen' (powder bags). Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 15th April 2014 at 07:20 PM.

15th April 2014, 11:36 AM	#2
Eric Slyter Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8	Hi Matchlock Yes, the one you posted from 1483 is the one I was referring to. I did read through the other threads but didn't find what I was looking for. My interest is the late 1300s, which I realize is earlier than reliable information provides for.