swords of Mohammed, but what about...

M.carter · 4th January 2005, 10:09 PM

My Beliefs might be absolutely wrong, they might seem crazy to others. No one can absolutely sure that these swords might have been the property of their alleged owners, but why not? I mean we do not have evidence that they aren't Mohammed's. Their style is identical to the swords of Arabia at the time of Mohammed. Also, the Arabian prophet isn't THAT old, he was around only 1400 years ago. With King Davids case, yes, it might be ridiculous, but why Mohammeds, his property is very sacred to all muslims, so they probably will take great care in keeping them and preserving them for future generations to see. Even King Davids property is probably very sacred to muslims, living in an arabian country, I have many muslim friends, and all of them highly praise ALL the prophets before their own prophet. Even the property of the Messiah, the only reason to what Saladin did to the true cross was that the muslims do not believe that Christ was crucified, they believe that he was sent up to the heavens by god, and another man who looked identical to him was sent down by god to replace him and be crucified, so what they think is that preserving the true cross is ridiculous because it didnt even exist, thats what they think, but lets not go into religion here, please.

Rivkin · 5th January 2005, 12:14 AM

I have couple of swords that look right for 7th century (even through they where made way later), I bet no one can prove that they never belonged to Mohammed.

The burden of proof is always on someone presenting the items and theories. Otherwise we would have Rembrandts going for 5$ per square feet.

Yes, it is quite possible that one of those guys is the original one. Again, one needs to have some facts to support such a claim, and without really knowing how these swords appeared into existance it's impossible to argue anything in support of that.

Concerning swords of David - well, taking in mind what was the history like for the past 2500, the chanse of such relic to survive is basically 0. It's not like Egypt where if you are lucky you can find a treasure cove with everything intact.

Concerning the respect that muslims would show to his pocessions - it's hard to show respect to something that in principle was never found. And this respect created much hatred and fighting for it caused the competition with jews and christians for the control over jewish and christian relics.

Battara · 7th January 2005, 01:46 AM

Here is an example of the "split sword" of the Prophet used as a talisman on a sword. Below is a Moro barong that is sultan class with gold, silver, and ivory. It comes from the book "The Gods of War" and once belonged to Stone (and is in his book as well). The talisman is silver inlay on the blade with other "arabic" talismanic writing as well: (one of the pics sent to Lee for resizing).

Battara · 11th January 2005, 11:31 PM

Here is an 19c Ottoman battle flag that has the "sword of the Prophet" on it. It was auctioned at Christies last year:

Federico · 12th January 2005, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Here is an 19c Ottoman battle flag that has the "sword of the Prophet" on it. It was auctioned at Christies last year:

So that is the split sword of David. Thank you so very much Battara. I have a kris with a silver inlay with this symbol, and it always had me scratching my head as to why they would inlay a figure of a man. Unfortunately a good portion of the inlay has fallen out.

erlikhan · 12th January 2005, 03:50 PM

There is the flag of the 16th.century Turkish pirate and later naval commander Barbaros Hayrettin in naval museum-Istanbul. It has the same symbol.

Yannis · 12th January 2005, 05:35 PM

Barbaros Hayrettin a.k.a. Barbarossa or Khayr ad-Din. A great Greek indeed!

Just joking...

This great commander was born in Lesbos island and some sources claim he was born christian. I dont say it is a fact, and I dont start a flame. He served the Sultan and he was a genius admiral.
His major opponent was also famous: Andrea Doria, an italian legend

7th January 2005, 01:46 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Here is an example of the "split sword" of the Prophet used as a talisman on a sword. Below is a Moro barong that is sultan class with gold, silver, and ivory. It comes from the book "The Gods of War" and once belonged to Stone (and is in his book as well). The talisman is silver inlay on the blade with other "arabic" talismanic writing as well: (one of the pics sent to Lee for resizing). Attached Images Last edited by Lee Jones; 8th January 2005 at 11:08 AM. Reason: to add full size picture

11th January 2005, 11:31 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Here is an 19c Ottoman battle flag that has the "sword of the Prophet" on it. It was auctioned at Christies last year: Attached Images

4th January 2005, 10:09 PM	#1
M.carter Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 176	My Beliefs might be absolutely wrong, they might seem crazy to others. No one can absolutely sure that these swords might have been the property of their alleged owners, but why not? I mean we do not have evidence that they aren't Mohammed's. Their style is identical to the swords of Arabia at the time of Mohammed. Also, the Arabian prophet isn't THAT old, he was around only 1400 years ago. With King Davids case, yes, it might be ridiculous, but why Mohammeds, his property is very sacred to all muslims, so they probably will take great care in keeping them and preserving them for future generations to see. Even King Davids property is probably very sacred to muslims, living in an arabian country, I have many muslim friends, and all of them highly praise ALL the prophets before their own prophet. Even the property of the Messiah, the only reason to what Saladin did to the true cross was that the muslims do not believe that Christ was crucified, they believe that he was sent up to the heavens by god, and another man who looked identical to him was sent down by god to replace him and be crucified, so what they think is that preserving the true cross is ridiculous because it didnt even exist, thats what they think, but lets not go into religion here, please.

5th January 2005, 12:14 AM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I have couple of swords that look right for 7th century (even through they where made way later), I bet no one can prove that they never belonged to Mohammed. The burden of proof is always on someone presenting the items and theories. Otherwise we would have Rembrandts going for 5$ per square feet. Yes, it is quite possible that one of those guys is the original one. Again, one needs to have some facts to support such a claim, and without really knowing how these swords appeared into existance it's impossible to argue anything in support of that. Concerning swords of David - well, taking in mind what was the history like for the past 2500, the chanse of such relic to survive is basically 0. It's not like Egypt where if you are lucky you can find a treasure cove with everything intact. Concerning the respect that muslims would show to his pocessions - it's hard to show respect to something that in principle was never found. And this respect created much hatred and fighting for it caused the competition with jews and christians for the control over jewish and christian relics.

12th January 2005, 03:50 PM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	There is the flag of the 16th.century Turkish pirate and later naval commander Barbaros Hayrettin in naval museum-Istanbul. It has the same symbol.

12th January 2005, 05:35 PM	#7
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Barbaros Hayrettin a.k.a. Barbarossa or Khayr ad-Din. A great Greek indeed! Just joking... This great commander was born in Lesbos island and some sources claim he was born christian. I dont say it is a fact, and I dont start a flame. He served the Sultan and he was a genius admiral. His major opponent was also famous: Andrea Doria, an italian legend