New African knife

Freddy · 9th March 2014, 09:45 PM

I recently found this copper knife on a Belgian auction site. When I received it, I was happily surprised to find out it was quite a good piece.

The copper blade shows hammermarks and is constructed as most Centralafrican blades are : one side of the blade is higher than the other side.

What intrigued me most was the handle. To me, it look Mangbetu. But I have never seen a Mangbetu knife with a similar blade (I'm still young, though

)

Other opinions are appreciated.

The pics are perhaps not entirely clear, these are the ones from the auction site. I can always make other ones.

Ah yes, I forgot : this knife measures 28,5 cm.

Rich · 10th March 2014, 10:07 AM

Certainly not my area of expertise (little is), but when I see red/yellow copper
I tend to think newly made. How old do you think this piece to be? My copper
tea kettle which is now nearly black/dark brown is only about 25 years old.

Rich

Pieje · 10th March 2014, 02:12 PM

Doesn't seem very old to me too.
Looks like the style of handle and blade don't fit together.

VANDOO · 10th March 2014, 08:01 PM

IN THE PAST COPPER AND BRASS BLADES WERE USUALLY FOR CEREMONIAL USE AND OFTEN IT WAS THOUGHT THAT SUCH BLADES WOULD PROTECT AGAINST SOME FORCES OR EVIL SPIRITS OR CREATURES WHERE IRON WOULD NOT. I THINK DURING THAT TIME THE BLADES WOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT POLISHED AS THE PROTECTIVE POWERS WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONGER AND MORE OBVIOUS TO THE EVIL CRITTERS. BASED ON SOMETHING I READ LONG AGO SOMEWHERE SO CONSIDER IT CONJECTURE OR CORRECT ME.

TODAY I SUSPECT IT IS DONE AS BLING!! THE COPPER BLADE DOES SET OFF THE BLACK HANDLE.

AND LIKE MANY I DO LIKE MY BLING

Freddy · 11th March 2014, 05:45 PM

I don't think it is as new as it looks on the first pics.

Vandoo has a point when he states that sometimes weapons were polished. Even irons weapons from Africa were polished. Each warrior likes to tend to his 'tools of trade'.

Here are some more pics. I took them without flashlight.

Sajen · 11th March 2014, 06:30 PM

Only my thoughts! Since Freddy have bought it from an auction house nobody will know for sure who have polished the blade, most proable the former owner/collector IMHO.
But what look weird is how the blade is attached to the handle.

Freddy, can you take some close ups from the handle? And what you think byself? Is the handle old and show patination?

Regards,
Detlef

Tim Simmons · 11th March 2014, 07:00 PM

It looks Mangbetu probably is Mangbetu. I feel sure I have seen a steel blade blade much the same without the marks.

Freddy · 11th March 2014, 09:08 PM

The blade is fastened to the handle by means of some kind of resin (?). Mostly, Mangbetu pieces have a tang which goes through the handle. This is not the case with this knife.

I took a pic of the base of the blade. Hopefully, you can see the way this blade is fixed to the handle.

Freddy · 11th March 2014, 09:18 PM

Just found a picture of similar handles. These are attributed to the Mangbetu. Compare them to the handle on my knife.

This picture comes from the book 'Rare African Short Weapons' by Manfred A. Zirngibl (1983)

9th March 2014, 09:45 PM	#1
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	New African knife I recently found this copper knife on a Belgian auction site. When I received it, I was happily surprised to find out it was quite a good piece. The copper blade shows hammermarks and is constructed as most Centralafrican blades are : one side of the blade is higher than the other side. What intrigued me most was the handle. To me, it look Mangbetu. But I have never seen a Mangbetu knife with a similar blade (I'm still young, though ) Other opinions are appreciated. The pics are perhaps not entirely clear, these are the ones from the auction site. I can always make other ones. Ah yes, I forgot : this knife measures 28,5 cm. Attached Images

11th March 2014, 05:45 PM	#5
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I don't think it is as new as it looks on the first pics. Vandoo has a point when he states that sometimes weapons were polished. Even irons weapons from Africa were polished. Each warrior likes to tend to his 'tools of trade'. Here are some more pics. I took them without flashlight. Attached Images

11th March 2014, 09:08 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	The blade is fastened to the handle by means of some kind of resin (?). Mostly, Mangbetu pieces have a tang which goes through the handle. This is not the case with this knife. I took a pic of the base of the blade. Hopefully, you can see the way this blade is fixed to the handle. Attached Images

11th March 2014, 09:18 PM	#9
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Just found a picture of similar handles. These are attributed to the Mangbetu. Compare them to the handle on my knife. This picture comes from the book 'Rare African Short Weapons' by Manfred A. Zirngibl (1983) Attached Images

10th March 2014, 10:07 AM	#2
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Certainly not my area of expertise (little is), but when I see red/yellow copper I tend to think newly made. How old do you think this piece to be? My copper tea kettle which is now nearly black/dark brown is only about 25 years old. Rich

10th March 2014, 02:12 PM	#3
Pieje Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belgium Posts: 132	Doesn't seem very old to me too. Looks like the style of handle and blade don't fit together.

10th March 2014, 08:01 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IN THE PAST COPPER AND BRASS BLADES WERE USUALLY FOR CEREMONIAL USE AND OFTEN IT WAS THOUGHT THAT SUCH BLADES WOULD PROTECT AGAINST SOME FORCES OR EVIL SPIRITS OR CREATURES WHERE IRON WOULD NOT. I THINK DURING THAT TIME THE BLADES WOULD HAVE BEEN KEPT POLISHED AS THE PROTECTIVE POWERS WOULD HAVE BEEN STRONGER AND MORE OBVIOUS TO THE EVIL CRITTERS. BASED ON SOMETHING I READ LONG AGO SOMEWHERE SO CONSIDER IT CONJECTURE OR CORRECT ME. TODAY I SUSPECT IT IS DONE AS BLING!! THE COPPER BLADE DOES SET OFF THE BLACK HANDLE. AND LIKE MANY I DO LIKE MY BLING

11th March 2014, 06:30 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,775	Only my thoughts! Since Freddy have bought it from an auction house nobody will know for sure who have polished the blade, most proable the former owner/collector IMHO. But what look weird is how the blade is attached to the handle. Freddy, can you take some close ups from the handle? And what you think byself? Is the handle old and show patination? Regards, Detlef

11th March 2014, 07:00 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	It looks Mangbetu probably is Mangbetu. I feel sure I have seen a steel blade blade much the same without the marks.