Unusual powder tester for comments

[Matchlock]

Thanks a lot, Marcus,


For searching (and finding!) this excellent material!

Could you please post here on the forum the respective images and descriptions in the links you found? I am requesting this considering the fact that many links tend to vanish from the web each day, so we would all be glad to find the material documented here.


Thanks again, and best wishes,
Michael

[Marcus den toom]

My pleasure

And as requested:

"This device for testing gunpowder was made in Avignon, France and dates to the 17th or early 18th century.

The amount of powder charge needed to pour down the muzzle of a gun depended on the strength of the powder, as well as the barrel length and bullet size. Testers tended to use the same mechanisms as the guns of the day, so this example with a nicely turned-wood handle and iron ratchet wheel, probably dates to the wheel-lock era. Samples of powder were ignited in the touch-hole and forced the wheel to rotate by means of a spring. Originally the wheel would have been marked with graduations from which the strength of the powder could be calculated."


"In the shape of some sort of mythological peacock/serpent standing on four feet. Bird's head on one end and a turned wood grip on the other. Very nice item marked "H K C". Graduated wheel is marked from 0-25. Very decorative piece. Well made and in excellent condition with a nice aged brass patina coloration."
The auction discription:
"17th century style cast-brass body powder tester with turned wood grip of 20th century manufacture, signed by Coulter “HKC / 12-67”. Measures 13” from end to end. Made with a high degree of quality and precision andshows good aging. Keith Coulter was an excellent craftsman and he did work only for his own purposes, not for resale or forgery. From the Keith Coulter collection"



"Early powder tester circa 1700 – 1750. 10-1/4” overall, 4-1/2” turned wood grip with brass ferrule connected to a straight steel platform with graduated wheel showing hand-engraved numbers and tension spring.With touch hole cover. Very good condition, normal aging, small chip to the grip. Similar to example pictured in Eprouvettes by Kempers, page 92. From the Keith Coulter collection"

[Matchlock]

Perfectly done, thank you for your kindness!

I profoundly disagree with the early dates obviously assigned by dealers to the objects; to me they are all 1st half to mid-19th c.

Best,
m

[fernando]

Very good and fast input, Marcus. Thank you for bringing in 'non pistol' style examples .
Certainly PittRivers and the 'ambitious' seller of the other example are claiming wrong dating.
... and the sexy 17th "style" four legged one might even be a 20th century replica ... or contemporary imagination .
I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
Obviously i might be wrong; my knowledge is very superficial. Correct me if i am wrong .


.

[Marcus den toom]

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole).
The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )

Here are the pictures from the touch hole side, notice the second powder tester of this post. It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do.

[Matchlock]

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

[Matchlock]

Two more, the one on top Spanish, dated 1865.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c. (top attachments), featuring an English model signed by Woolley, ca. 1780 (made of brass), and including a modern copy (the one on the percussion system).

m

Fantabulous Michl,
Great and varied examples.
I don't want to jump to conclusions as i lack the experience to perceive that determined examples from different countries follow the same fashion; otherwise i would say that my specimen is Spanish, when comparing it with the one made by Lucas Ortiz de Zarate ... although i die for mine not being from the 18th century, even if by the end ... horn grip and all

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

With these on our site we have, I guess, a full spectrum of powder testers, starting with an early instance of the second half of the 17th c....

Let me then widen the spectrum ... back to the dawn of powder testing.
Images drawn for a rather interesting article written by Dr. H. G. Muller:
http://www.reenactor.ru/ARH/PDF/Muller_H._G.pdf
I am trying to find the author's email address, to query him on my example but, so far, had no result. Anyone has an idea how to get it ?

.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

Hi Fernando,

I must appologize for the lack of other pictures which gives also a view of the other side of the powder testers (with touch hole)...

Oh no Marcus, all was fine enough from your side.
The touchole confusion was on the sites descriptions, not on the 'missing' pictures.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...The bronze 4 legged one and the third one from post #7 where both made by the collector Keith Coulter, who according to the auction website who sold these items before, made these powder testers for his own collection and not for fraudulent purposes. Thus these are modern replicas, most likely using multiple styles? (confusing )...

After you posted the links, i went browsing on the sources of those examples ... and also on the Keith Coulter issue. That's why i guessed on the fantasy of the peculiar example.

Originally Posted by Marcus den toom

...It has a spring next to the powder 'deposit', i wonder what this might do. ...

If you read the description, it says "with touchole cover". Perhaps that is a sort of dust cover ... or for avoiding the priming powder to fall off (?). The spring is there to secure the cover ... and maybe to turn aside to open.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by fernando

I wonder if both PittRivers and the Commercial site are making some confusion with the touchole issue ... or is it me ? One thing is the little 'hole' in the base where you submit the ignition and the other thing is the 'deposit' where you fill the powder to be tested ... sorry the funny lexicon. It seems as they are calling touchole the late part.
.

Hi Nando,


Not being in the least familiar with these objects, I have been wondering ever since you asked this question in post #9.

I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip always kept ready in any average home (German: Kienspan). This then lead to the explosion of the testing powder.


Best,
m

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... I guess you must be right: the small external trough marked by you must have been an igniting pan for priming powder, probably lit by a glowing pinewood chip ...

Sure thing Michl,
... Reason why i found this primitive system example more appealing that the mostly seen ones operated by 'mechanical' striking.