VOC BLADES: A comprehensive look

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for the support guys!!! All of you are in key position to learn more on these blades, and asomotif has noted, hopefully this thread will archive the topic of the VOC blades for future researches as well.
The goal here is to review more on these blades both as occurring on issued or regulation swords and cutlasses as well as how they diffused into the various colonial trade spheres.
Detlef, looking forward to photos!
Maurice great points on the faking of these kinds of marks, and your efforts to find more in that library are much appreciated, we always keep at it! so often more can be found at later attempts.

All the best,
JIm

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you so much for the support guys!!! All of you are in key position to learn more on these blades, and asomotif has noted, hopefully this thread will archive the topic of the VOC blades for future researches as well.
The goal here is to review more on these blades both as occurring on issued or regulation swords and cutlasses as well as how they diffused into the various colonial trade spheres.
Detlef, looking forward to photos!
Maurice great points on the faking of these kinds of marks, and your efforts to find more in that library are much appreciated, we always keep at it! so often more can be found at later attempts.

All the best,
JIm

Salaams Jim, I was amazed that EIC simply did not stamp sword blades but did so on gunpowder weapons and bayonets.. For the latter see http://www.armsregister.com/articles...ore_musket.pdf
The Dutch, as you state did... and many examples exist on web and forum.

I have not found any Kastane with Portuguese stamps... and reason that there were none because of the nature of the weapon which was a purebred native blade at the time of the Portuguese influx.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The Dutch, as you state did... and many examples exist on web and forum.

Yes many examples around. But which ones are fake, and which ones are real? Are there real VOC stamps on blades?
I need to see that on provenanced pieces, not on the examples which I can find on the internet.

If you have some with provenance, can you post pictures here?
I will if I find any...

Regards,
Maurice

[Sajen]

Here some new pictures of my Timor sword. There is a marking "Hembrug" on the blade. I have acquired this sword some years ago via ebay, see the link in up. When I get this sword the marking was covered by rust, so I think it's an original marking. But sadly nothing else is known about it's provenance but I don't have doubts about it's originality.

[Sajen]

Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Just get the information from a member that a Hembrug blade isn't a VOC blade, so my sword don't add any information to this thread. VOC blades are much older as this Hembrug blade. Sorry for any confusion!

It's good bringing this one up Detlef.
It seemed that trade blades were used also in the latter period (after the
VOC time).

Kind regards,
Maurice

[asomotif]

A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002).
It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799.
The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India.

Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali.
It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast.

Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation.

Best regards,
Willem

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by asomotif

A few years ago I read a book "De jacht op sandelhout" by Arend de Roever (2002).
It describes how the VOC forced themselves into the Sandalwood trade from Timor. The VOC was present on Timor from 1613 till 1799.
The trade was a complex system of all kinds of raw materials and semi finished products that where traded by the VOC between Europe, Indonesia, but also China, Japan, India.

Sandalwood was brought from Timor to China and India and Bali.
It describes also that sword blades where placed in the ships sailing from Europe as trade material and also serving as ballast.

Interestingly, a lot of weapons that I recall with VOC blades are timor swords. Sorry Maurice, This is getting close to speculation.

Best regards,
Willem

Thank you Willem for bringing it up.

Indeed very strange that most of the VOC blades are timor swords.
I don't know about Timor a lot, did they had own blacksmiths? If not that could be a reason for finding there so many trade blades.

However I have also seen VOC blades on old Preanger swords. Gavin had one nice gobang for sale with dated VOC blade recently.
Also I've seen a dated VOC blade on a Bandjermasin keris, and on a lanceblade from Borneo, which is in the Bronbeek museum now.

However all had not the right provenance to prove these really were old tradingblades from the VOC.

Maurice

[kai]

Hello Maurice,

Indeed very strange that most of the VOC blades are timor swords.
I don't know about Timor a lot, did they had own blacksmiths? If not that could be a reason for finding there so many trade blades.

This and the heavy VOC involvement makes it likely to find quite some of these there; I do seem to remember also examples from the greater Timor region (which may have been diffusing out of Timor proper).

However I have also seen VOC blades on old Preanger swords. Gavin had one nice gobang for sale with dated VOC blade recently.
Also I've seen a dated VOC blade on a Bandjermasin keris, and on a lanceblade from Borneo, which is in the Bronbeek museum now.

I believe these are quite widespread: I've seen several out of Sumatra and also central Java.

However all had not the right provenance to prove these really were old tradingblades from the VOC.

I am not sure what kind of provenance would be needed for an ethnographic combo to prove the point? Even when registered into any European nobility collection during the VOC period, this still could be a local "fake" of a possibly respected quality mark.

I know that real VOC swords are a kind of holy grail of Dutch/international military sword collectors and there certainly are a lot of fakes on the market.

However, ethnographic pieces don't enter those collecting circles AFAIK and among ethnographic collectors the VOC mark may be an interesting addition but it won't influence the usually moderate prices in such a way that convincing fakes would be economically lucrative. These are old and worn blades which doesn't make studying marks really easy. However, these are also not easy to apply fake stamps in recent times. It's not that we're looking at some sh***r c**l repros... Sorry, Jim, couldn't resist!

In most cases, experienced collectors are quite good at differentiating locally crafted blades (usually preferred) from European steel or trade blades. I'd suggest to compile all VOC-marked blades: Any VOC marks on blades apparently made from imported steel (including genuine VOC trade blades) should be carefully analyzed; very valuable would be marks from genuine VOC swords - there must be a few in Dutch musea? If we were to come across VOC marks on obviously locally crafted blades, these would make a good comparision, too! This may be a bit like reverse engineering - let's give it a try though!

Will try to load up some examples in the following days if time permits.

Regards,
Kai