Sinhala / Sri Lankan Swords?

Andrew · 27th January 2014, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Andrew ~ You know as well as I do that there is a duel of pens going on here... but that so far as I am concerned I have but one reason to add detail on Forum... That reason being forum learning and understanding of the facts. If some members are driven to sleep by my posts let them not open them...but present the truth and the facts I will always try to do... and unlike others at least to try to promote a modicum of research. I have not dismissed or disregarded any comments...In fact all comments are respected except in the case of blatant and unnecessary remarks... Would you be so insulted?

I have looked at my posts and in standing back as you suggest I see a few areas I can improve on...I could do with a decent library !! I start my posts in the same way because that is how I was taught to be respectful to all readers.
Often the two dimensional attributes of the written form don't fully express the intent being expressed by the author .. that must be taken into account by the reader.. Where a researcher has clearly spent ages ploughing up details and information it is bound to be irritating if "a one liner special" or farcical reply is presented in all seriousness as a response! Perhaps I should add to posts only serious players need comment!

Meanwhile and with great respect I withdraw from the thread on Sri Lankan Weapons in all respects but hope that it continues unabated. Should you prefer, I agree to have removed all of my posts from this thread. That way we shall see who is serious about research in this field.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim:

My role here is to keep order, not pick "sides." It is not my intent to stifle productive discussion--quite the opposite.

I believe you are well-intended with your postings.

However, I am uncertain if you appreciate that your posting style irritates (and, perhaps, alienates) some of your fellow forum members? Does that bother you at all or, perhaps, encourage you to consider making some changes? If so, you may well cut down on some of the responses that irritate you if you made an effort to understand and change what irritates others.

If not...you reap what you sow.

A

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th January 2014, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Ibrahiim:

My role here is to keep order, not pick "sides." It is not my intent to stifle productive discussion--quite the opposite.

I believe you are well-intended with your postings.

However, I am uncertain if you appreciate that your posting style irritates (and, perhaps, alienates) some of your fellow forum members? Does that bother you at all or, perhaps, encourage you to consider making some changes? If so, you may well cut down on some of the responses that irritate you if you made an effort to understand and change what irritates others.

If not...you reap what you sow.

A

Salaams Andrew, Your role is highly respected. As you note ..my intentions are solid behind promoting the Forums knowledge. Your advice is sought on which way to manoeuvre this thread?

We have at our bidding a great opportunity to examine the Japanese variant as placed in my last post on the subject ...Personally I think the Storta appears as the winner in terms of influence. It does, however, somewhat rule out the comparison with the Popham item. I suspect that the blade stamps were, in fact, placed by the Japanese "owner-apparent" Hasekura Tsunenaga, and I have examples of his marks for comparison. Perhaps the Japanese so called Kastane is a huge red herring? It may well be that the thread will run dry, however, we will have placed a great deal of information so that in future another researcher can take on the challenge.

This thread remains as ever an open conduit for all manner of Sri Lankan weaponry though it has to be said that it evolved and developed around the Kastane and that is the main thrust of the work and only recently was attention diverted to other items..these are welcome provided their inclusion is not a device to derail ... and we have dealt with the flail device in addition.

Insofar as my own writing format ~ I hope people can handle the idiosyncrasies of that because if they don't like the beginning nor the end... and don't like the middle, they always have the option of not reading it...though of course if I can develop a less aggressive style maybe they would.

Thank you for your post.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

David · 28th January 2014, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

This thread remains as ever an open conduit for all manner of Sri Lankan weaponry though it has to be said that it evolved and developed around the Kastane and that is the main thrust of the work and only recently was attention diverted to other items..these are welcome provided their inclusion is not a device to derail … and we have dealt with the flail device in addition.

Hopefully Ibrahiim, you can see that this thread "evolved and developed around the Kastane" almost solely under YOUR will and directions after Jim raised some questions about the weapon. It was certainly fair game for discussion at that point as the OPs original questions was about ALL Sri Lankan weapons. It is now the "main thrust of the work" mostly due to your own efforts to make it so. Some might see this as your own "device to derail" this thread. But threads grow as they may, organically and it is not really your place to decide what is or is not welcome regarding what Sri Lankan weapons other members may choose to discuss here simply because YOU want this thread to be mostly about the kastane.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 28th January 2014, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hopefully Ibrahiim, you can see that this thread "evolved and developed around the Kastane" almost solely under YOUR will and directions after Jim raised some questions about the weapon. It was certainly fair game for discussion at that point as the OPs original questions was about ALL Sri Lankan weapons. It is now the "main thrust of the work" mostly due to your own efforts to make it so. Some might see this as your own "device to derail" this thread. But threads grow as they may, organically and it is not really your place to decide what is or is not welcome regarding what Sri Lankan weapons other members may choose to discuss here simply because YOU want this thread to be mostly about the kastane.

Salaams David, Perhaps I may ask you which direction you would like the thread to move in? The work presented at #214 could be one option? ..and that coupled with the ever present possibility that other weapons could be injected into the equation.

In that way we can accommodate your wishes and move the thread forward.

Threads as you note are organic and they go which way the wind is blowing..at this time some emphasis appears to be in the Kastane because it is the most interesting of Sri Lankan weapons and poses such a lot of questions because of its amazing history through three invading countries Portugal, Holland and Great Britain and tied to its own fabulous history and Buddhist/Hindu roots stretching back 4,000 years...Naturally other weapons may be presented and as they are.. then they can be examined.. as has been the flail sword device only a few posts back instigated by Ariel.

The martial arts weapon system in Sri Lanka, for example, contains dozens of blades but I reason that there is still much to do on the Kastane though I am ready as always to examine any weapon ...as always.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 28th January 2014, 09:29 PM

Well said Ibrahiim, an excellent description of threads on this and many forums, that they may move in many directions, and that aspect is probably one of the most intriguing aspects of studying ethnographic arms. It is often surprising how many things might be factored in with the study of one weapon.
As David has pointed out, it was my question regarding kastanes that led to the ensuing discourse focused on the kastane as opposed to a broad discussion on Sri Lankan weapons. Aside from the piha kaetta, which has its own esoterica, these other weapons are not nearly as well known or familiar as the kastane, which is often considered in much of the literature as the 'national weapon of Ceylon'.

It is with this rather premiere status that the kastane tends to become one of the most distinct and recognizable arms of Sri Lanka, and that in addition to previous discussions in recent times that brought that particular weapon to the forefront here. I was glad to see Ariel bring in the other rather obscure weapon, which illustrates the point on how little is really known on most of the other weapons here. Virtually the only known focused article on the arms of Sri Lanka is by Derinayagala (I believe 1942).

I think it has been well determined that any other weapons from Sri Lanka that have anyones interest are welcome on this thread, as seen with Ariels well placed query, despite the fact that the title refers to 'swords'

I remain intrigued by the development of the kastane, though admittedly undecided as far as any particular standard for the representations in the motif, which is of course one of the elements of discussion. I believe there is good reason to further examine the Hasekura sword, with regard to trying to determine more on the earliest examples of the zoomorphic head hilt (much in the manner we look into katars, tulwars, and many others) .

Perhaps someone might enter in a piha kaetta or possibly some of the polearms here and that might broaden the discussion. Possibly there might be iconographic associations between motif on these and the kastane? Possibly motif on polearms might reflect influences?

I just noticed and had forgotten, the title of this thread is Sinhala/Sri Lankan Swords.....I had entirely forgotten that!

When I think of a Sri Lankan sword, it seems almost quintessant to think of the kastane. Certainly there were others far earlier as seen in the magnificent artwork by Prasanna, but are these well known enough for an in depth discussion? are there enough examples in collections to support an illustrative discussion?

It would seem the focus on kastane here developed because it is virtually the only Sri Lankan sword that has wide recognition and a well established scope of examples and development? While KuKulz queried further amidst the discussion asking about earlier types of Sri Lankan swords, the focus on kastane was simply resultant as no other entries pertaining to the other earlier forms was forthcoming. The question never addressed Sri Lankan arms in general.

I believe that Elgood noted that the 'gauntlet sword' or pata had some presence in Sri Lanka (this is also noted in Deraniyagala) . Does anyone have an example or reference to illustrate one of these?

Meanwhile I am trying to think of what other sword forms beyond those in the more ancient and historic period were used in Ceylon.

VANDOO · 29th January 2014, 05:21 PM

AS JIM STATED THE PHIA AND THE KASTANE ARE THE TWO MOST WELL KNOWN WEAPONS FROM SIRI LANKA/CEYLON. EVEN THEN THERE ARE MANY UNKNOWNS ABOUT BOTH ITEMS IS IT A LION OR A MAKARA FOR INSTANCE I THINK WE HAVE SETTLED THAT QUESTION AS TO IT BEING A LION ON THE POMMEL, BUT WHY WAS THE LION CHOSEN?
BUT STILL WE WONDER WHEN AND WHY DID THE KASTANE BECOME THE NATIONAL SWORD AND IF ITS PRESENT FORM IS NOT A WEAPON THEN WHAT DID ITS PREDECESOR THAT WAS USED IN WAR LOOK LIKE.?
THE PHIA IS STILL A BIT VAGUE AS TO ITS USE WAS IT CEREMONIAL AND A PRESTIEGE ITEM AND WHAT WAS IT USED FOR? WAS IT USED AND CARRIED FOR EVERY DAY USE OR ONLY USED FOR CERTIAN THINGS. WERE THE ONES THAT INCLUDED A STYLUS A TOOL CARRIED ONLY BY HIGH CLASS OFFICIALS OR SCRIBES?
THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE TWO ITEMS AND WE DID BECOME BOGGED DOWN AS IS SO OFTEN THE CASE WHEN TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT WE MEAN AND WHY TO OTHERS WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW AND DON'T SEEM TO GET THE POINT OR JUST DENY YOUR REASONING AND OBSERVATIONS.
I HAVE FOUND MY SELF IN THAT POSITION SEVERAL TIMES

WHEN I SAY I HAVE MADE SUCH AND SUCH OBSERVATIONS AND HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS AND SOMEONE SAYS THEY DISAGREE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT EXAMEND THE OBJECT IN PERSON OR HAVE GOOD SOLID INFORMATION TO SUPPORT THEIR VIEW. THIS MAKES ONE WISH TO TRY AND EXPLAIN BETTER SO THE OTHER ONE MAY UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS. IT NEVER WORKS NO MATTER HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN SO I HAVE LEARNED IT IS BEST JUST TO MAKE YOUR STATEMENT AND MOVE ON NOT TO TRY TO EXPLAIN OR DEFEND IT AGASINST AN OPPOSING VIEW.
ITS HUMAN NATURE TO TRY AND DEFEND YOUR VIEWS BUT THE REPETITION OF YOUR VIEW AND THEN THE OPPOSITE VIEW BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. ITS LIKE THE OLD NEVER ENDING ARGUMENT ( IT IS TOO! , NO ITS NOT, IT IS TOO, NO ITS NOT!)

I HAVE LEARNED TO RESIST JOINING THIS BATTLE AND LETTING THREADS DIE WITH QUESTIONS UNANSWERED WHEN THIS OCCURS AS IT BECOMES TEDIOUS AND POINTLESS AND NO FUN AT THAT STAGE. I ENJOY THE FORUM AND TRY TO ADD KNOWLEGE OR GET ANSWERS AND TO HAVE FUN, AT MY AGE WHEN IT IS NO LONGER FUN I FIND A NEW FUN THING TO DO.

I DO HOPE THE THREAD CONTINUES AS I THINK NEW INFORMATION HAS COME TO LIGHT AND THERE ARE MANY MORE AVENUES TO BE EXPLORED IN THE KASTANE AND PHIA NOT TO MENTION THE MANY OTHER WEAPONS FOUND IN CEYLON'S LONG HISTORY.

A FEW PICTURES #1, C. P. DIAS SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER
#2 THRU #5 A NEWER VERSION OF THE KASTANCE WITH A MAKARA POMEL

#6 THRU #11, VARIOUS PATISTHANAYA SPEARS
# 12 ANOTHER MODERN FORM OF SWORD SAID TO BE FROM SIRI LANKA WITH ELETHANT HEAD.

Jim McDougall · 29th January 2014, 05:31 PM

In order to better respond to the original query in this thread, I spent some time reviewing resources at hand to learn more about what types of swords were actually used in Sri Lanka from ancient times into more modern.
Turning to "Sinhala Weapons and Armour" (P.E.P. Deraniyagala, 1942, p.115) where he notes , "..it is interesting to note that among the 26 kinds of swords used by early Sinhalayans are those of Pandi, Vaduga, Malaya Telugu, Ayodhya and Java".

In his article Deraniyagala illustrates with line drawings a range of sword forms as seen primarily from iconographic sources such as friezes and frescoes with some as early as 6th ranging into the 12th, then again 16th and 17th. The earliest forms are described as leaf shaped, straight and double edged noted as being 'offensive' weapons.
Other types of blades including long straight single edged as well as wavy, saw edged and choppers are described, which of course would reflect the forms of many of the above listed regions.

With its importance in the export of fine steel in the trade networks of so many cultures and foreign powers it is not surprising that such diversity would be reflected in the armouries of then Sinhala in their swords .

Viewing many of the line drawings as well as examining some of the profiles of swords in "The Indian Sword" (P.Rawson, 1967) it is clear that there are distinct similarities in many of the forms to those of the Indian mainland.
Many of those with angular and lozenge shaped points resemble some of the Nair forms of India, as well as others from Andhra from Telugu speaking regions I believe . There are others which resemble forms seen in the iconography at Ajanta and Ellora from as early as 5th century, which profoundly reflects the connection via the Buddhist Faith in Sri Lanka and India.

Deraiyagala includes in the scope of his panoply of sword forms, the recognizable kasthane, which he feels begins in the 18th century with the influence of Arab sabres and he claims the lionhead comes into fashion.
Naturally it appears that this assessment is quite conservative, and it seems remarkable that the influence of Arab 'scimitars' as he calls them, would have taken this long to take hold.

Returning to the subject of the previously discussed kasthane alleged to provenance from the Hasekura mission which returned to Japan in 1620, in the article of November 15,1998, "Unique Kastane Sword in Japan" by Dr. P.H.D.H.DE Silva, there are interesting notes to another example .
It is claimed that two other examples of two other carved ivory 'simha head' hilts exist, one in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London, is believed to be a gift to the Chief of the Weerasinghe family by King Parakrama Bahu VI (1415-1467).

While this is tempting to accept this period as the earliest date for the noted lionhead hilt, as well as the example from the Hasekura mission c.1620, we must consider even these respected museum provenances as probabilities rather than conclusive evidence .

Returning to the spectrum of Sri Lankan swords from earlier periods and outside the prevalent kasthane analysis, we look to another article, "Two Old Sinhalese Swords", (by C.M.Fernando, 'Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Ceylon Branch, Vol.XVIII , 1905, p388-91).
There are two old swords said to have inscriptions from the Kotte period c.1374 AD These swords and the translations on the inscriptions were examined by authority P.E.Pieris who commended the translations, but felt the swords were much more recent, and 'European' about 300 years old.
Incredibly these are clearly Indian swords with dish pommel and knuckleguard resembling tulwars of probably 17th c.

This is what I mean about museum descriptions often optimistic if not in many cases, almost fanciful .

In the earlier part of this thread, we listed a number of references which pertain to the swords of Sinhala, and I hope this rather incomplete overview might give a least some perspective on the type of swords probably used in Sinhalese history. As indicated most of this can only be surmised as even iconographic sources may be imbued with a degree of artistic license, as well as our pervasive focus on the kasthane which carries a great deal of speculative analysis.

However these are the things which comprise discussion, and I fully believe that suggestions, observations and material presented must be regarded as evidence to be considered, and respectfully analyzed objectively.

For me, the subject of the esoterica of Sinhalese arms, particularly the swords, have long been a fascinating topic and often visited over the past 15-20 years. I very much admire the tenacity and knowledge of all who have participated in this thread, and sincerely hope we can all continue looking into these arms. There are so many questions yet.

Prasanna Weerakkody · 30th January 2014, 01:32 AM

Vandoo,
Regarding the images; The mudellier ( SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER) never saw battle and the kasthane was only a rank symbol and often was of little value as weapon within that context. The images of Kasthana I included in my posts #25 #62 #89 illustrate Kasthana swords known to have a warrior past and most probably seen battle (fighting Kasthana types) More over the image of a Kasthana wielding Sinhala warrior would be more like the #139 “Nilame” painting I added rather than the long coated mudelliers working for the Dutch and British companies.

Post #87 include a reference to a historic text that confirms the use of Kasthana in the battlefields as early as mid 16th Century to the Mulleriyawela battle(1559).

I believe that it is important to identify what truly define a Kasthana sword- the makara headed and the Elephant headed arms shown in my mind do not qualify as Kasthana as they lack many of the features (including the typical arrangement of quillons, ricasso, “langet”, presentation of beast forms on guards and pommel, scabbard form etc.) that are particular to and define Kasthana apart from many other types of swords.

It is also important to identify the “type” weapons and deviants properly to avoid confusions.

Regards
Prasanna

28th January 2014, 09:29 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	noted that title specifies swords not 'all weapon forms' Well said Ibrahiim, an excellent description of threads on this and many forums, that they may move in many directions, and that aspect is probably one of the most intriguing aspects of studying ethnographic arms. It is often surprising how many things might be factored in with the study of one weapon. As David has pointed out, it was my question regarding kastanes that led to the ensuing discourse focused on the kastane as opposed to a broad discussion on Sri Lankan weapons. Aside from the piha kaetta, which has its own esoterica, these other weapons are not nearly as well known or familiar as the kastane, which is often considered in much of the literature as the 'national weapon of Ceylon'. It is with this rather premiere status that the kastane tends to become one of the most distinct and recognizable arms of Sri Lanka, and that in addition to previous discussions in recent times that brought that particular weapon to the forefront here. I was glad to see Ariel bring in the other rather obscure weapon, which illustrates the point on how little is really known on most of the other weapons here. Virtually the only known focused article on the arms of Sri Lanka is by Derinayagala (I believe 1942). I think it has been well determined that any other weapons from Sri Lanka that have anyones interest are welcome on this thread, as seen with Ariels well placed query, despite the fact that the title refers to 'swords' I remain intrigued by the development of the kastane, though admittedly undecided as far as any particular standard for the representations in the motif, which is of course one of the elements of discussion. I believe there is good reason to further examine the Hasekura sword, with regard to trying to determine more on the earliest examples of the zoomorphic head hilt (much in the manner we look into katars, tulwars, and many others) . Perhaps someone might enter in a piha kaetta or possibly some of the polearms here and that might broaden the discussion. Possibly there might be iconographic associations between motif on these and the kastane? Possibly motif on polearms might reflect influences? I just noticed and had forgotten, the title of this thread is Sinhala/Sri Lankan Swords.....I had entirely forgotten that! When I think of a Sri Lankan sword, it seems almost quintessant to think of the kastane. Certainly there were others far earlier as seen in the magnificent artwork by Prasanna, but are these well known enough for an in depth discussion? are there enough examples in collections to support an illustrative discussion? It would seem the focus on kastane here developed because it is virtually the only Sri Lankan sword that has wide recognition and a well established scope of examples and development? While KuKulz queried further amidst the discussion asking about earlier types of Sri Lankan swords, the focus on kastane was simply resultant as no other entries pertaining to the other earlier forms was forthcoming. The question never addressed Sri Lankan arms in general. I believe that Elgood noted that the 'gauntlet sword' or pata had some presence in Sri Lanka (this is also noted in Deraniyagala) . Does anyone have an example or reference to illustrate one of these? Meanwhile I am trying to think of what other sword forms beyond those in the more ancient and historic period were used in Ceylon. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 28th January 2014 at 11:21 PM.

29th January 2014, 05:21 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	AS JIM STATED THE PHIA AND THE KASTANE ARE THE TWO MOST WELL KNOWN WEAPONS FROM SIRI LANKA/CEYLON. EVEN THEN THERE ARE MANY UNKNOWNS ABOUT BOTH ITEMS IS IT A LION OR A MAKARA FOR INSTANCE I THINK WE HAVE SETTLED THAT QUESTION AS TO IT BEING A LION ON THE POMMEL, BUT WHY WAS THE LION CHOSEN? BUT STILL WE WONDER WHEN AND WHY DID THE KASTANE BECOME THE NATIONAL SWORD AND IF ITS PRESENT FORM IS NOT A WEAPON THEN WHAT DID ITS PREDECESOR THAT WAS USED IN WAR LOOK LIKE.? THE PHIA IS STILL A BIT VAGUE AS TO ITS USE WAS IT CEREMONIAL AND A PRESTIEGE ITEM AND WHAT WAS IT USED FOR? WAS IT USED AND CARRIED FOR EVERY DAY USE OR ONLY USED FOR CERTIAN THINGS. WERE THE ONES THAT INCLUDED A STYLUS A TOOL CARRIED ONLY BY HIGH CLASS OFFICIALS OR SCRIBES? THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE TWO ITEMS AND WE DID BECOME BOGGED DOWN AS IS SO OFTEN THE CASE WHEN TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT WE MEAN AND WHY TO OTHERS WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW AND DON'T SEEM TO GET THE POINT OR JUST DENY YOUR REASONING AND OBSERVATIONS. I HAVE FOUND MY SELF IN THAT POSITION SEVERAL TIMES WHEN I SAY I HAVE MADE SUCH AND SUCH OBSERVATIONS AND HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS AND SOMEONE SAYS THEY DISAGREE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT EXAMEND THE OBJECT IN PERSON OR HAVE GOOD SOLID INFORMATION TO SUPPORT THEIR VIEW. THIS MAKES ONE WISH TO TRY AND EXPLAIN BETTER SO THE OTHER ONE MAY UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HAVE COME TO THESE CONCLUSIONS. IT NEVER WORKS NO MATTER HOW MANY DIFFERENT WAYS YOU TRY TO EXPLAIN SO I HAVE LEARNED IT IS BEST JUST TO MAKE YOUR STATEMENT AND MOVE ON NOT TO TRY TO EXPLAIN OR DEFEND IT AGASINST AN OPPOSING VIEW. ITS HUMAN NATURE TO TRY AND DEFEND YOUR VIEWS BUT THE REPETITION OF YOUR VIEW AND THEN THE OPPOSITE VIEW BEING REPEATED OVER AND OVER ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. ITS LIKE THE OLD NEVER ENDING ARGUMENT ( IT IS TOO! , NO ITS NOT, IT IS TOO, NO ITS NOT!) I HAVE LEARNED TO RESIST JOINING THIS BATTLE AND LETTING THREADS DIE WITH QUESTIONS UNANSWERED WHEN THIS OCCURS AS IT BECOMES TEDIOUS AND POINTLESS AND NO FUN AT THAT STAGE. I ENJOY THE FORUM AND TRY TO ADD KNOWLEGE OR GET ANSWERS AND TO HAVE FUN, AT MY AGE WHEN IT IS NO LONGER FUN I FIND A NEW FUN THING TO DO. I DO HOPE THE THREAD CONTINUES AS I THINK NEW INFORMATION HAS COME TO LIGHT AND THERE ARE MANY MORE AVENUES TO BE EXPLORED IN THE KASTANE AND PHIA NOT TO MENTION THE MANY OTHER WEAPONS FOUND IN CEYLON'S LONG HISTORY. A FEW PICTURES #1, C. P. DIAS SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER #2 THRU #5 A NEWER VERSION OF THE KASTANCE WITH A MAKARA POMEL #6 THRU #11, VARIOUS PATISTHANAYA SPEARS # 12 ANOTHER MODERN FORM OF SWORD SAID TO BE FROM SIRI LANKA WITH ELETHANT HEAD. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 29th January 2014 at 06:22 PM.

29th January 2014, 05:31 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	In order to better respond to the original query in this thread, I spent some time reviewing resources at hand to learn more about what types of swords were actually used in Sri Lanka from ancient times into more modern. Turning to "Sinhala Weapons and Armour" (P.E.P. Deraniyagala, 1942, p.115) where he notes , "..it is interesting to note that among the 26 kinds of swords used by early Sinhalayans are those of Pandi, Vaduga, Malaya Telugu, Ayodhya and Java". In his article Deraniyagala illustrates with line drawings a range of sword forms as seen primarily from iconographic sources such as friezes and frescoes with some as early as 6th ranging into the 12th, then again 16th and 17th. The earliest forms are described as leaf shaped, straight and double edged noted as being 'offensive' weapons. Other types of blades including long straight single edged as well as wavy, saw edged and choppers are described, which of course would reflect the forms of many of the above listed regions. With its importance in the export of fine steel in the trade networks of so many cultures and foreign powers it is not surprising that such diversity would be reflected in the armouries of then Sinhala in their swords . Viewing many of the line drawings as well as examining some of the profiles of swords in "The Indian Sword" (P.Rawson, 1967) it is clear that there are distinct similarities in many of the forms to those of the Indian mainland. Many of those with angular and lozenge shaped points resemble some of the Nair forms of India, as well as others from Andhra from Telugu speaking regions I believe . There are others which resemble forms seen in the iconography at Ajanta and Ellora from as early as 5th century, which profoundly reflects the connection via the Buddhist Faith in Sri Lanka and India. Deraiyagala includes in the scope of his panoply of sword forms, the recognizable kasthane, which he feels begins in the 18th century with the influence of Arab sabres and he claims the lionhead comes into fashion. Naturally it appears that this assessment is quite conservative, and it seems remarkable that the influence of Arab 'scimitars' as he calls them, would have taken this long to take hold. Returning to the subject of the previously discussed kasthane alleged to provenance from the Hasekura mission which returned to Japan in 1620, in the article of November 15,1998, "Unique Kastane Sword in Japan" by Dr. P.H.D.H.DE Silva, there are interesting notes to another example . It is claimed that two other examples of two other carved ivory 'simha head' hilts exist, one in the Victoria & Albert Museum in London, is believed to be a gift to the Chief of the Weerasinghe family by King Parakrama Bahu VI (1415-1467). While this is tempting to accept this period as the earliest date for the noted lionhead hilt, as well as the example from the Hasekura mission c.1620, we must consider even these respected museum provenances as probabilities rather than conclusive evidence . Returning to the spectrum of Sri Lankan swords from earlier periods and outside the prevalent kasthane analysis, we look to another article, "Two Old Sinhalese Swords", (by C.M.Fernando, 'Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, Ceylon Branch, Vol.XVIII , 1905, p388-91). There are two old swords said to have inscriptions from the Kotte period c.1374 AD These swords and the translations on the inscriptions were examined by authority P.E.Pieris who commended the translations, but felt the swords were much more recent, and 'European' about 300 years old. Incredibly these are clearly Indian swords with dish pommel and knuckleguard resembling tulwars of probably 17th c. This is what I mean about museum descriptions often optimistic if not in many cases, almost fanciful . In the earlier part of this thread, we listed a number of references which pertain to the swords of Sinhala, and I hope this rather incomplete overview might give a least some perspective on the type of swords probably used in Sinhalese history. As indicated most of this can only be surmised as even iconographic sources may be imbued with a degree of artistic license, as well as our pervasive focus on the kasthane which carries a great deal of speculative analysis. However these are the things which comprise discussion, and I fully believe that suggestions, observations and material presented must be regarded as evidence to be considered, and respectfully analyzed objectively. For me, the subject of the esoterica of Sinhalese arms, particularly the swords, have long been a fascinating topic and often visited over the past 15-20 years. I very much admire the tenacity and knowledge of all who have participated in this thread, and sincerely hope we can all continue looking into these arms. There are so many questions yet.

30th January 2014, 01:32 AM	#8
Prasanna Weerakkody Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Sri Lanka Posts: 52	Vandoo, Regarding the images; The mudellier ( SINHALESE CHRISTIAN INTERPRETER) never saw battle and the kasthane was only a rank symbol and often was of little value as weapon within that context. The images of Kasthana I included in my posts #25 #62 #89 illustrate Kasthana swords known to have a warrior past and most probably seen battle (fighting Kasthana types) More over the image of a Kasthana wielding Sinhala warrior would be more like the #139 “Nilame” painting I added rather than the long coated mudelliers working for the Dutch and British companies. Post #87 include a reference to a historic text that confirms the use of Kasthana in the battlefields as early as mid 16th Century to the Mulleriyawela battle(1559). I believe that it is important to identify what truly define a Kasthana sword- the makara headed and the Elephant headed arms shown in my mind do not qualify as Kasthana as they lack many of the features (including the typical arrangement of quillons, ricasso, “langet”, presentation of beast forms on guards and pommel, scabbard form etc.) that are particular to and define Kasthana apart from many other types of swords. It is also important to identify the “type” weapons and deviants properly to avoid confusions. Regards Prasanna