SABERS AND SOME ETHNIC WEAPONS IN SPANISH MUSEUM

carlos · 7th November 2005, 05:14 PM

HELLO !!
YESTERDAY I FOUND THIS INTERESTING LINK TO A EXHIBITION OF SPANISH SABERS AND SOE ETHNIC WEAPONS.
ENJOY!!
http://www.ejercito.mde.es/ihycm/act...je/sables.html

Andrew · 7th November 2005, 05:20 PM

Thanks for posting the link, Carlos.

Could you translate this text for us?

Quote:

DHAR BHURMANÍ

Longitud total: 865mm.

Longitud hoja: 530mm.

Materiales: Acero, madera, plata, algodón.

Nº inventario: 25.071.

Empuñadura realizada en madera con forma torneada y provista de un importante pomo que semeja un turbante. Todo el conjunto se halla recubierto de lámina de plata y finamente labrado. El puño se encuentra dividido en dos secciones, una de las cuales está a su vez recubierta por una redecilla de alambre trenzado.

Este tipo de sable carece de guarda, y posee una hoja de acero con líneas curvas. Posee lomo redondo al interior y filo corrido al exterior.

La vaina es de madera, forrada de lámina de plata con distintas decoraciones, y posee un cordón de algodón verde para su transporte ceñido al cinto.

El Dhar es el arma característica de Birmania.

carlos · 7th November 2005, 06:55 PM

I´M SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH. I HOPE THAT YOU COULD NOW READ THE TEXT. IN SPANISH THE DHA NAMES DHA TOO, NO DHAR, THIS IS A FAIL OF THE MUSEUM.
DHA BHURMANÍ

Total length: 34.05 inc.

Length blade: 20.86 inc..

Materials: Steel, wood, silver, cotton.

N º inventory: 25.071.

Hilt realized in wood with turned form and provided with an important handle that resembles a turban. The whole set is covered with a sheet of silver and very good worked. The handle is divided in two sections, one with which it is covered in turn by a net of wire braided.

This type of saber lacks guard, and possesses a steel blade with curved lines. It possesses round loin inthe interior and edge traversed on the outside.

The scabbard is of wood lined with engraving of silver with different decorations, and possesses a cord of green cotton for his transport in the belt.

The Dha is the typical weapon of Burma

RhysMichael · 7th November 2005, 07:03 PM

Carlos please correct me if I get any of this wrong

Total length : 865mm.
Length leaf: 530mm.
Material: Steel, wood, silver, cotton.
Nº inventory: 25.071.
Handle carried out in ( made of ) turned wood and provided ( has ) an important knob that resembles a turban. All the assembly is found covered with silver sheet and elegantly worked. The fist ( handle) is found divided into two sections, one of the which is at the same time covered by a hairnet of braided wire.
This type of saber lacks guard, and possesses a curved steel blade. It has round back to the interior and edge run to the outside ( ?? Perhaps this means the sharpened edge is the outside of the curve )
The sheath is wood, lined with silver sheet with different decorations, and possesses a cord of green cotton for transporting it at the belt.

The Dhar is the characteristic weapon of Burma.

RhysMichael · 7th November 2005, 07:04 PM

Thanks Carlos you posted while I was tranlating I am slow at it I did get some of it right

Marc · 7th November 2005, 07:22 PM

Translation:

"Burmese Dhar [Translation Note: nevermind the spelling, there isn't a truly fixed form for the name of this kind of weapon in Spanish]:

Total Length: 865mm.

Blade length: 530mm.

Materials: Steel, wood, silver, cotton.

Inventory Number: 25.071.

Hilt made in wood with a lathed shape and provided with an important pommel that resembles a turban. The whole ensemble is covered with silver sheet and finely worked. The grip is divided in two sections, one of which is in turn covered by a woven wire mesh.

This type of sabre lacks a guard, and features a steel blade of curved lines. It features a rounded spine in the inside and a full edge in the outside [Translation Note: this description of the edge and spine is a direct translation of the technical way blades are described in Spanish. Among other things, sabre blades are described as having an "outside", where the main edge is, and an "inside", where the secondary edge and/or the spine is. I left it this way because I think it's clear enough]

The sheath is wood, covered of silver sheet with different decorations, and features a green cotton cord for carrying slung in the belt

The Dhar is the characteristic weapon of Burma"

Additionally, let me add a couple of things about this description and the others in the site... I know some of the people involved in the redaction of the catalogue of this exhibition. While the description of the military weapons is generally spot on, the data regarding some of the more ... "ethnographic" items is... well, less reliable. Descriptions are OK, but I wouldn't use the geographical and chronological data of the ethnographic items for anything else than a "general approximation".
The descriptions were done by different individuals, from different backgrounds, that's why no consistency, in one way or another, can be found. So it's better to exert some prudence.

In their discharge I have to say that because of logistic reasons they had to use what little data was available at that time at the Museum and had no chance to properly research the more "exotic" items. On the whole, given the conditions in which this exhibition was done, the final result, included the fact that it’s actually in the net, is, believe me, no less than spectacular...

Marc · 7th November 2005, 07:29 PM

Oops... well, three translations for the price of one.

Just ask if there's something any of you, gentlemen, wants to see clarified.

Andrew · 7th November 2005, 07:33 PM

Muchas gracias, mi hermanos. Mi Espanol es muy mal.

Battara · 8th November 2005, 06:12 AM

Mil gracias, tambien. Mi vocabolario no es bien (lo siento mucho

).

Muchos museums no saben espadas ethnographias.

(Many museums don't know about ethnographic swords).

Marc · 8th November 2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Mil gracias, tambien. Mi vocabolario no es bien (lo siento mucho

).

Muchos museums no saben espadas ethnographias.

(Many museums don't know about ethnographic swords).

Not at the level of this forum, that's unquestionable.
You know... I'm not that sure if people is really aware of how valuable and rare the combined knowledge, direct or indirect, that one can find here truly is.

Hence, the result: we're spoiled.

Well, at least I know I am: now when I see, for example, a bladed weapon from the Philippines in a museum I feel a strange disappointment when it's not classified within a plus/minus 25-years period and, of course, attributed to at least, a tribe.
Knowledge is such a funny thing...

Battara · 8th November 2005, 11:16 AM

Very glad we can be of some service.

That is one of the biggest reasons why I joined the forum a few years ago (that and all of the good opportunities to joke and make puns without getting shot

).

jmings · 8th November 2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc

<snip>
Knowledge is such a funny thing...

The more I know, the more I know that I don't know.

7th November 2005, 05:14 PM	#1
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	SABERS AND SOME ETHNIC WEAPONS IN SPANISH MUSEUM HELLO !! YESTERDAY I FOUND THIS INTERESTING LINK TO A EXHIBITION OF SPANISH SABERS AND SOE ETHNIC WEAPONS. ENJOY!! http://www.ejercito.mde.es/ihycm/act...je/sables.html

7th November 2005, 06:55 PM	#3
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	traslation I´M SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH. I HOPE THAT YOU COULD NOW READ THE TEXT. IN SPANISH THE DHA NAMES DHA TOO, NO DHAR, THIS IS A FAIL OF THE MUSEUM. DHA BHURMANÍ Total length: 34.05 inc. Length blade: 20.86 inc.. Materials: Steel, wood, silver, cotton. N º inventory: 25.071. Hilt realized in wood with turned form and provided with an important handle that resembles a turban. The whole set is covered with a sheet of silver and very good worked. The handle is divided in two sections, one with which it is covered in turn by a net of wire braided. This type of saber lacks guard, and possesses a steel blade with curved lines. It possesses round loin inthe interior and edge traversed on the outside. The scabbard is of wood lined with engraving of silver with different decorations, and possesses a cord of green cotton for his transport in the belt. The Dha is the typical weapon of Burma

7th November 2005, 07:22 PM	#6
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Translation: "Burmese Dhar [Translation Note: nevermind the spelling, there isn't a truly fixed form for the name of this kind of weapon in Spanish]: Total Length: 865mm. Blade length: 530mm. Materials: Steel, wood, silver, cotton. Inventory Number: 25.071. Hilt made in wood with a lathed shape and provided with an important pommel that resembles a turban. The whole ensemble is covered with silver sheet and finely worked. The grip is divided in two sections, one of which is in turn covered by a woven wire mesh. This type of sabre lacks a guard, and features a steel blade of curved lines. It features a rounded spine in the inside and a full edge in the outside [Translation Note: this description of the edge and spine is a direct translation of the technical way blades are described in Spanish. Among other things, sabre blades are described as having an "outside", where the main edge is, and an "inside", where the secondary edge and/or the spine is. I left it this way because I think it's clear enough] The sheath is wood, covered of silver sheet with different decorations, and features a green cotton cord for carrying slung in the belt The Dhar is the characteristic weapon of Burma" Additionally, let me add a couple of things about this description and the others in the site... I know some of the people involved in the redaction of the catalogue of this exhibition. While the description of the military weapons is generally spot on, the data regarding some of the more ... "ethnographic" items is... well, less reliable. Descriptions are OK, but I wouldn't use the geographical and chronological data of the ethnographic items for anything else than a "general approximation". The descriptions were done by different individuals, from different backgrounds, that's why no consistency, in one way or another, can be found. So it's better to exert some prudence. In their discharge I have to say that because of logistic reasons they had to use what little data was available at that time at the Museum and had no chance to properly research the more "exotic" items. On the whole, given the conditions in which this exhibition was done, the final result, included the fact that it’s actually in the net, is, believe me, no less than spectacular... Last edited by Marc; 7th November 2005 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Spelling, what else... sigh...

7th November 2005, 07:03 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Carlos please correct me if I get any of this wrong Total length : 865mm. Length leaf: 530mm. Material: Steel, wood, silver, cotton. Nº inventory: 25.071. Handle carried out in ( made of ) turned wood and provided ( has ) an important knob that resembles a turban. All the assembly is found covered with silver sheet and elegantly worked. The fist ( handle) is found divided into two sections, one of the which is at the same time covered by a hairnet of braided wire. This type of saber lacks guard, and possesses a curved steel blade. It has round back to the interior and edge run to the outside ( ?? Perhaps this means the sharpened edge is the outside of the curve ) The sheath is wood, lined with silver sheet with different decorations, and possesses a cord of green cotton for transporting it at the belt. The Dhar is the characteristic weapon of Burma.

7th November 2005, 07:04 PM	#5
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Thanks Carlos you posted while I was tranlating I am slow at it I did get some of it right

7th November 2005, 07:29 PM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Oops... well, three translations for the price of one. Just ask if there's something any of you, gentlemen, wants to see clarified.

7th November 2005, 07:33 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Muchas gracias, mi hermanos. Mi Espanol es muy mal.

8th November 2005, 06:12 AM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Mil gracias, tambien. Mi vocabolario no es bien (lo siento mucho ). Muchos museums no saben espadas ethnographias. (Many museums don't know about ethnographic swords).

8th November 2005, 11:16 AM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Very glad we can be of some service. That is one of the biggest reasons why I joined the forum a few years ago (that and all of the good opportunities to joke and make puns without getting shot ).