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#1 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
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Salaams Jim, Your post is as always brilliantly laid out and full of the most interesting and well researched notes... I wish my library was half as good. I am pleased my Storta revelation was as interesting to you as it was to me as I almost fell off my chair !! You may recall it appears on the North African thread...with as it happens in the same picture as the blade ~a Lions Head. How interesting ~it could be that lions head and other similar pommels may have been produced in Sri Lanka before the arrival of the Portuguese... and of course the staggering likeness of the Storta blades of Venice...both in the straighter broad form and the short curved variants... and the quillon and guard arrangements. The possibilities are mind boggling ! Last point next...The blade mark M according to your classic thread could be from Juan Martinez Menchaca..if in fact it is an M ... If its an N I have no idea! I wondered if the Japanese writing under the picture was descriptive of the makers/owners mark? In comparing early hilts I had hoped we could look at the artwork of the Popham and the actual hilt in the Japanese variant since these are two of the oldest available items and draw some comparisons. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
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#2 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,281
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I think my last post was a bit too long, and it is difficult to wade through that much data.
Regarding the storta blade matter. This is based on the images posted by Gustav in post #187 from the article on the Hasekura blade c.1620. This reveals that this particular example has a blade of storta form with peak near the tip much as also seen on other similar examples such as from China . We cannot conclude that the blade form became universal, but it does suggest contact with trade from either Venice or China in that blade. The markings are from the same post, #187 and it is distinctly an 'N' and similar to such markings on some Italian blades . As DeSilva noted in 1998, Thom Richardson suggests this would have likely been an owners mark. The Japanese writing probably does refer to the nature of these marks. I agree that close up views of the Popham hilt in comparison to this hilt would be beneficial to the discussion. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,280
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Popham's kastane
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
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Salaams All,
Thank you Gustav for excellent picture of the artwork of the Popham Armour. In comparing the Popham and Japanese variants I suggest that the two forms whilst emanating from a similar thought process by two very different artists even operating out of different Royal Workshops... is conveyed to the finished article with a great degree of artistic licence... The one being big cat Lion influence and the other perhaps a mythical beast form, perhaps the Serapendiya or the Makara but certainly evidenced by other mythical lesser Deities on the rest of the Hilt... smaller Makara or Naga types. The tail of the artwork at Popham spilling over lavishly onto the rainguard and scabbard region in foliate, fish-tail or peacock form. The entire form taking on occasional anthropomorphic attribute when joined with the half crocodile/ half human face to the hand guard and occasionally even seen with the face of another monster at/between the crossguard..The Kirtimukha. Again regarding the main hilt subjects I cite artistic licence as we are after all looking at a painting on one hand and an artesans interpretation on the other... On the Popham, therefor, the description of mythical serpent form seems to fit better than a Lion style of interpretation.. though some may indicate an apparent mane which others view as scales or simply part of the myriad of devices contained on this multiple animal myth. On the Japanese Museum item the hilt is more clearly viewed as a big cat... The Lion form quite obvious. Lesser deities appear as finials on the cross guard and hand guard and on the perhaps Pseudo Quillons which appear uncannily like Vajra finials; hardly surprising, however, since the Hindu Buddhist influence is huge on this hilt. The blade is incredible. Not only in its straight broad shape but in its apparent likeness to the Venice Storta style. As yet no one has translated the Japanese detail defining what the stamp is... and it could be a makers or a stamp of ownership. The squiggle form is not known but may be a wolf mark done locally but not yet identified ?...nor translated..Significantly there is some sort of carving at the blade viewed as perhaps another monster or "gargoyle" and similar to the usual batch of varied possibilities. Artistically drawn it could be any of them. The two forms perhaps indicate that each Kastane weapon be viewed quite on its own merit since there are clear differences in interpretation of the two early forms thus this is bound to be complicated... even compounded in the later centuries. It is even doubtful that the precise creature can be identified (the main subject on the hilt), though, I think upon the minor deities we are a lot clearer. Lost also in the fog of time is the amazing discovery of potential Venetian Storta influence and perhaps it can only be considered as that... influence .. yet that is important. In part the closeness of the dates of the transition to Japan and the involvement in the Indian Ocean of the Portuguese in Sri Lanka lends me to posit that the Royal Workshops could have worked in unison with Portuguese weapon makers in the earlier years. The anecdotal evidence may support Royal Workshop involvement in the peculiar rank identity of officials wearing a certain quality of Kastane and though noted as 1807 may have been done earlier. Naturally having had three invader countries ravaging the country it is not surprising to be confronted with such a fog. Undoing the facts from fiction was never going to be easy. I am sure however that we have added much to the subject and apologies to those who have viewed the proceedings as somewhat stormy. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. ![]() Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 18th January 2014 at 02:08 PM. |
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