Indian Armguard

estcrh · 13th January 2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams All ~ I have to say that Indian Armour is not my first subject but that I have thoroughly enjoyed the story so far and it is great to see our experts go for this one! It is a steep learning curve but I am really enjoying the input.
Bye the way Jim,... Dastana means in Hindi ...Mitten or Glove. ... or Gauntlet !

In Baluchi Dast means ... hand.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahimm, I am certainly no expert, as for the meaning of "dastana", you and Jim are correct in that some references refer to the hand cover alone as "dastana" but the term has somehow come to describe the entire Indian arm guard. Here is an example from page 112 of "A Description of Indian and Oriental Armour: Illustrated from the Collection Formerly in the India Office, Now Exhibited at South Kensington, and the Author's Private Collection : With a Map, Twenty-three Full-page Plates (two Coloured), and Numerous Woodcuts : With an Introductory Sketch of the Military History of India", Earl Wilbraham Egerton Egerton, W. H. Allen & Company, limited, 1896." which you can read for free as an ebook or download as a pdf.

http://books.google.com/books?id=WXc...gbs_navlinks_s

estcrh · 13th January 2014, 01:32 PM

Here is a closer view of a Sind dastana, the few I have seen have individual finger covers instead of the more conventional mitten type hand cover. The entire matching armor was sold at auction recently which allowed for some detailed images.

Jim McDougall · 13th January 2014, 03:08 PM

Thank you so much guys for the additional images and material, and again I really do appreciate the references and cites. Estcrh, fantastic Pininterest site! and the images stored there are wonderful.
Ibrahiim thank you as well for the always interesting language notes, and it does seem that words and terms as they diffuse into other languages and dialects can become colloquially descriptive in broader sense than the original or root words.

I think this is much in the way that so many words in various languages can end up broadly referring to a wider range of edged weapons such as knife or dagger to sword, or various sword forms incorporated into one term such as the Arabic term sa'if.

Interestingly it would seem that, especially in India where there are so many languages, dialects and diverse cultural influences, that these kinds of descriptive terms have interpolated much as the arms and armor themselves have.

It would seem from what we have seen, these various elements of armor have been grouped together in composite assemblies of components to form functional sets. This is actually much the same as with European armor harness in which the components were often made by various makers and assembled into the complete set.

Thank you again Estrch for adding these additional examples which are attributed nominally to Sind, which gives us excellent perspective on the styles which were likely in use. This is I believe essentially what Paroosevelt has been trying to establish.

Again, absolutely fascinating topic and thread! On the references though, no need for super detail just title, author and publ date wih pages if possible

Well done on that, and much appreciated.

All the best,
Jim

Paroosevelt · 15th January 2014, 02:18 PM

Yes the images are great estcrh. Especially the one with the lammellar style glove. It's exactly what I have been after. I'm hoping to take some samples of the iron next week to confirm whether it has been zinc plated and also to try and gather some information on the smelting and forging processes which is a whole other story. I'll be back to let you know how I get on with it all.

estcrh · 16th January 2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paroosevelt

I'm hoping to take some samples of the iron next week to confirm whether it has been zinc plated

I have only seen one example of Indian armor which had the appearance of being zinc plated, when I first saw this I thought it may have been painted but after looking at some close up images it does not look like paint.

13th January 2014, 01:32 PM	#2
estcrh Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 1,492	Here is a closer view of a Sind dastana, the few I have seen have individual finger covers instead of the more conventional mitten type hand cover. The entire matching armor was sold at auction recently which allowed for some detailed images. Attached Images

13th January 2014, 03:08 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you so much guys for the additional images and material, and again I really do appreciate the references and cites. Estcrh, fantastic Pininterest site! and the images stored there are wonderful. Ibrahiim thank you as well for the always interesting language notes, and it does seem that words and terms as they diffuse into other languages and dialects can become colloquially descriptive in broader sense than the original or root words. I think this is much in the way that so many words in various languages can end up broadly referring to a wider range of edged weapons such as knife or dagger to sword, or various sword forms incorporated into one term such as the Arabic term sa'if. Interestingly it would seem that, especially in India where there are so many languages, dialects and diverse cultural influences, that these kinds of descriptive terms have interpolated much as the arms and armor themselves have. It would seem from what we have seen, these various elements of armor have been grouped together in composite assemblies of components to form functional sets. This is actually much the same as with European armor harness in which the components were often made by various makers and assembled into the complete set. Thank you again Estrch for adding these additional examples which are attributed nominally to Sind, which gives us excellent perspective on the styles which were likely in use. This is I believe essentially what Paroosevelt has been trying to establish. Again, absolutely fascinating topic and thread! On the references though, no need for super detail just title, author and publ date wih pages if possible Well done on that, and much appreciated. All the best, Jim

15th January 2014, 02:18 PM	#4
Paroosevelt Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3	Yes the images are great estcrh. Especially the one with the lammellar style glove. It's exactly what I have been after. I'm hoping to take some samples of the iron next week to confirm whether it has been zinc plated and also to try and gather some information on the smelting and forging processes which is a whole other story. I'll be back to let you know how I get on with it all.