The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams; Note to Library. The British Museum exhibit...The Omani Battle Sword. Which they appear to call a dance sword (which it isn't).
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Whoops! I meant "do complete EACH OTHER in the field of Arab swords". Sorry for the typing error!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ The Al Ain Museum has a great collection of antiquities (and a particularly extensive and excellent section dedicated to archeology of the region... brilliantly carried out by the French Team)

In the weaponry section a display of "various types of swords"...and there amongst the different types is an Omani Battle Sword (Sayf Yamaani, 3rd from top) in this case adorned with 2 silver buttons at the cross guard and a silvered pommel. From memory I think it has a dot at the tip...last time I stood in front of that case was 1988.

The line up looks like Kattara, Quaddara, Sayf Yamaani, and some sort of Flysa.

Captured for posterity ... below.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Dear Sir,

I would love to know how you connected this sword style to the 7th century AD with such determination.

Cheers!

[S.Al-Anizi]

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

Salaams S.Al-Anizi, You are absolutely right. I too have arrived at a dead stop regarding information on this weapon. Most of the museums with a Sayf Yamaani example are known to me but none seem to pinpoint its origins though I am sure the closest will be in Istanbul at the Topkapi... Being called Sayf Yamaani may point to a Hadramaut origin but nothing is proven. I have to say that the only detective work we have in our favour is one of logical assessment: We know it must be earlier than first thought and crude ideas that it was a Portuguese sword or that its origins were in the 17th C were of course nonsense. Reasoned write ups have placed the weapon in the region of 1000 AD... Quite how that has been arrived at "Out of the Blue" has not been explained but I believe the direction is correct but falls short.

The periods in Omani History that need to be considered are After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154....combined with the 751AD date of the defenders through initially Ibn Julanda.

Thinking logically there was no reason to have a battle sword (adopted until today) appear in those timeframes unless it was a hugely important weapon. The only crucible for the appearance of a sword of that nature with an Islamic Hilt as the nations adopted battle sword was with Ibn Julanda... thus it takes on the appearance of a very early Sword of The Prophet ... Pre dating it 250 years before the year 1000 AD in fact is nothing since after that it has marched on until today more than another 1000 years. Moreover if it was indeed the Iconic religious weapon that I suspect then it may well precede 750 AD and be more in line with about 650 A.D.

Regretably there are no swords to compare in the Umayyad period as none seem to exist...so that we appear wedged in between the Abassid period and about 1000 AD... No weapons were buried with bodies and no examples of such an early sword exists..

We know that Saaid bin Sultan Iconized the hilt having it covered in silver like the Royal Khanjar in the 19th C and I have sketches of it on Sultan Bargash and a photo of it with The Ruler today. We also know that the Sayf Yamaani was used with the Omani Terrs shield and that this was the only battle Sword in the early era.

The words of the late Anthony North echo in the words he describes in Islamic Arms in his opening paragraph where he describes Islamic weapons as once accepted as effective so they hardly ever changed, thus, the vast timescale that the Sayf Yamaani continued to be made and used down the ages....and by no other warriors except the Omanis.

It is for these reasons that I suspect it was an Iconic Religious weapon( Ibaathi) and why it has stuck around for so long.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An interesting reference can be seen at http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/08/13...slamic-swords/

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On inspection of The Maqamat (Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri at

https://www.pinterest.com/mahboobee/...eriod/?lp=true

I discovered in the manuscript artwork two instances of the straight sword with turned down quilons; One which is often quoted as being the sword Sayf Yamaani (with the two camels). The second picture also painted more than 1000 years ago shows the same style of weapon as the first ...

According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Please see the following research paper related generally to early Islamic swords~

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...viewFile/86/86

Note that the sword shown in the paper above and illustrated below is virtually identical to all the swords in the previous post. This is early 10thC ... and begs the question as to how long a sword needs to be in the public domain before it is Iconised with a place in the astrology charts.

Shown below;from the Suwar al-kawakib al-thabita of al-Sufi dated1009-10