Shashka for comments

TVV · 31st December 2013, 06:33 PM

Thank you Martin,

I think what you wrote makes perfect sense. After their displacement by Russia, a lot of Circassians were dispersed within the Ottoman Empire, which gave them shelter. Alternatively, this shashka may be from South-West Georgia in the areas that were under heavy Ottoman influence.

Regards,
Teodor

ArmsAndAntiques · 1st January 2014, 06:12 PM

The blade designs appear to be more related to ones I've seen on Bukharan Central Asian shashka blades than on Caucasian examples. Though the shape does appear to be less Bukharan than Caucasian. Perhaps a Bukharan craftsman made the blade.

Jim McDougall · 2nd January 2014, 03:26 AM

While Martin may claim no expertise in shashkas, I think he has brilliantly assessed this example, and excellent suggestion and presentation on the Ottoman motif.
I also claim no particular authority on these, but have of course been engaged in research on them on many occasions in certain degree. I would suggest perhaps that this blade may be from mid 19th into around 1870s and is likely Chechen. Reviewing Askhabov (2001, p.129) an example with blade having somewhat similar paneled fullering is from the aul of Dargo (I believe near Grozny).

I agree that this shashka has been refurbished, and it seems that the ornamentation on the scabbard mounts do appear to be 'copied' as well shown by Martin. I would suggest rather than necessarily being done in Turkey, this may have been completed in the industrious commerce in Tblisi, where many Transcaucasian artisans worked.

I agree also that the decorative design on the blade resembles the kind of fanciful and geometric devices seen on many blades of Chechen regions.
I was noting the several drilled or stamped punctions in the cartouche, and believe the makers in Dargo may have used these as a kind of coded signature if I understand correctly the circumstances there during the Murid Wars. That is of course hypothetical on my part.

Definitely an intriguing example!

TVV · 2nd January 2014, 09:37 PM

Thank you your input Gentlemen,

I also thought about a Central Asian origin of the blade, but the hilt and scabbard are very non-Central Asian, and I am yet to see evidence of Bukharan blades flowing west, as opposed to the other way around which is well documented. Chechen work may be a very good guess, and I will look at Askhabov's book for similar examples. Per Rivkin, Tiflis was indeed a major sword production and trade center, and the script may be in Georgian or an imitation of Georgian. For what it is worth, the sword was collected (and still remains) in the Balkans, so at least the concluding point of its journey is known.

I suspect that if anyone can read the script or at least identify what language it is intended to resemble, it may provide a great clue on the blade's origin.

Teodor

ArmsAndAntiques · 3rd January 2014, 03:12 AM

The more I look at it, the more the fuller design appears Central Asian and in particular Afghan. I've had numerous pulwars with this type of crudely done fuller work. However, I'd agree that the overall shape is more Caucasian than anything else.

Jim McDougall · 3rd January 2014, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmsAndAntiques

The more I look at it, the more the fuller design appears Central Asian and in particular Afghan. I've had numerous pulwars with this type of crudely done fuller work. However, I'd agree that the overall shape is more Caucasian than anything else.

Most interesting observation A&A and sounds like you've had some good exposure to weaponry from these regions. May I ask more about the paluoars you're referring to, any chance of images or examples of this type fuller pattern on them. I've long been curious about just where in Afghanistan these paluoars were produced. My impression has always been they were more Deccani influenced tulwars from Northwest frontier regions.

ArmsAndAntiques · 5th January 2014, 12:25 AM

Hi Jim,

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of those as I had them several years ago before I began to systematically keep photos of my pieces. However, just a few weeks ago I had dinner with a friend of mine, an Afghan war vet, who picked up some pieces there and if I remember right at least two of the pieces he showed me had similar fullering.

While I can't produce the photos of those Afghan pieces, I would feel that it would be interesting for someone to show a photo of a definite Caucasian origin piece with a similar blade. I also would say that the fuller work trending towards Central Asian, is also supported by Chinese swords with similar fullering as well, something picked up from Persian-Central Asian aesthetics, as Philip Tom has written about quite eloquently.

Best
LL

31st December 2013, 06:33 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you Martin, I think what you wrote makes perfect sense. After their displacement by Russia, a lot of Circassians were dispersed within the Ottoman Empire, which gave them shelter. Alternatively, this shashka may be from South-West Georgia in the areas that were under heavy Ottoman influence. Regards, Teodor

1st January 2014, 06:12 PM	#2
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	The blade designs appear to be more related to ones I've seen on Bukharan Central Asian shashka blades than on Caucasian examples. Though the shape does appear to be less Bukharan than Caucasian. Perhaps a Bukharan craftsman made the blade.

2nd January 2014, 03:26 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	While Martin may claim no expertise in shashkas, I think he has brilliantly assessed this example, and excellent suggestion and presentation on the Ottoman motif. I also claim no particular authority on these, but have of course been engaged in research on them on many occasions in certain degree. I would suggest perhaps that this blade may be from mid 19th into around 1870s and is likely Chechen. Reviewing Askhabov (2001, p.129) an example with blade having somewhat similar paneled fullering is from the aul of Dargo (I believe near Grozny). I agree that this shashka has been refurbished, and it seems that the ornamentation on the scabbard mounts do appear to be 'copied' as well shown by Martin. I would suggest rather than necessarily being done in Turkey, this may have been completed in the industrious commerce in Tblisi, where many Transcaucasian artisans worked. I agree also that the decorative design on the blade resembles the kind of fanciful and geometric devices seen on many blades of Chechen regions. I was noting the several drilled or stamped punctions in the cartouche, and believe the makers in Dargo may have used these as a kind of coded signature if I understand correctly the circumstances there during the Murid Wars. That is of course hypothetical on my part. Definitely an intriguing example!

2nd January 2014, 09:37 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Thank you your input Gentlemen, I also thought about a Central Asian origin of the blade, but the hilt and scabbard are very non-Central Asian, and I am yet to see evidence of Bukharan blades flowing west, as opposed to the other way around which is well documented. Chechen work may be a very good guess, and I will look at Askhabov's book for similar examples. Per Rivkin, Tiflis was indeed a major sword production and trade center, and the script may be in Georgian or an imitation of Georgian. For what it is worth, the sword was collected (and still remains) in the Balkans, so at least the concluding point of its journey is known. I suspect that if anyone can read the script or at least identify what language it is intended to resemble, it may provide a great clue on the blade's origin. Teodor

3rd January 2014, 03:12 AM	#5
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	The more I look at it, the more the fuller design appears Central Asian and in particular Afghan. I've had numerous pulwars with this type of crudely done fuller work. However, I'd agree that the overall shape is more Caucasian than anything else.

5th January 2014, 12:25 AM	#7
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	Hi Jim, Unfortunately I don't have any photos of those as I had them several years ago before I began to systematically keep photos of my pieces. However, just a few weeks ago I had dinner with a friend of mine, an Afghan war vet, who picked up some pieces there and if I remember right at least two of the pieces he showed me had similar fullering. While I can't produce the photos of those Afghan pieces, I would feel that it would be interesting for someone to show a photo of a definite Caucasian origin piece with a similar blade. I also would say that the fuller work trending towards Central Asian, is also supported by Chinese swords with similar fullering as well, something picked up from Persian-Central Asian aesthetics, as Philip Tom has written about quite eloquently. Best LL