The Omani Battle Sword. Sayf Yamaani.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams; Note to Library. The British Museum exhibit...The Omani Battle Sword. Which they appear to call a dance sword (which it isn't).
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams; Note to Library. The British Museum exhibit...The Omani Battle Sword. Which they appear to call a dance sword (which it isn't).
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ahmed..Happy New Year !!

The Saif Yemaani ~ I agree with the earlier date of 600 but it was difficult enough to wean people off the idea that these were either Portuguese or wildly ranging in age between about the 10th and 19th Century !! I will weigh up my own sword and let you have the statistics. In addition I thought it worth simply tying the sword to a specific date in Omani history though obviously it could easily be prior to that date. I was looking for a link as a religious iconic weapon..

Please note my comparison with the Abasiid sword though done only from photographic records from Topkapi. I chose 751 because it was the start date of Omans Ibaathi religion and the date of the first Imam. I think I noted that this figure was tentative and could easily be before that... but clearly with an Islamic Hilt the date could easily be as you note. Weight is 0 point 9 of a kilogram without scabbard and 1 point 1 kilogram with scabbard. Width at throat is 4 point 7 centimetres and blade length is 66 point 5 centimetres. The Hilt measures 14 point 3 cms with a cuff of 2 point 2 centimetres at the throat.

The measurements are from the weapon at #35.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Thanks a lot for the info, Ibrahiim! The dimensions of the sword you've mentioned clearly reveals that it was an infantryman's sword; not a horseman's. It also wasn't for use against fully armored opponents.

Yes, you were correct to say that there were likes of this sword before the Abbasid period. You see: There are no differences between the Arab swords of the late pre-Islamic era, and those Arab swords referring to al-Rashidun era, and those of the Umayyad era, and those of the Abbasid era; except in the decorations, and the calligraphy style. Add to that the many cheap swords that were manufactured locally and were forged from locally made crucible steel; starting from the Umayyad period.

Had I seen your work on the Omani War Sword (Sayf Yamaani) before earning my masters degree, my dissertation would've come out more valuable than it did. The hilts of those Omani War Swords are priceless; not to mention the blades.

It's really a pleasure reading and studying your work on this extremely important topic! Thanks a lot, Ibrahiim!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Ahmed ~ Thank you for your great post. Most encouraging. I shall try to find a few more Sayf Yamaani before it is too late...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

[AhmedH]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

I said nothing but the truth; no flattery here nor any compliments. You've done a great job so far, and yes, my greed regarding the subject makes me audaciously ask you for more information, pictures, examples, etc. Keep up the great work, Sir! Worthy to note is that my specialization; along with yours, do complete the field of the study of Arab swords. Great job so far, Ibrahiim...more and more, please!

Thanks a lot in advance!

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Whoops! I meant "do complete EACH OTHER in the field of Arab swords". Sorry for the typing error!

[S.Al-Anizi]

Originally Posted by AhmedH

Salaams Ibrahiim,

First of all: Happy New Year! Now then, I've really enjoyed this thread very much, and I liked your discussion with Iain regarding this issue.

Regarding the photos of those Omani swords, their shape, features, etc all date back to c. 600 CE ; not just 751 CE. In fact, I believe 751 CE would be TOO PRUDENT.

However, I still need to know the dimensions of the blades: whether in length, breadth, and thickness...along with the full weight of these swords minus their scabbards.

Any other info regarding these swords shall be highly appreciated, Sir.

Thanks a lot in advance.

Ahmed Helal Hussein

Dear Sir,

I would love to know how you connected this sword style to the 7th century AD with such determination.

Cheers!

[S.Al-Anizi]

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Dear Ibrahim,

Many thanks for the interesting topic I just happened to read through it for the first time.

Now as a researcher, with Arab weaponry being the field that I endeavor to increase my knowledge in, I have been focusing on pre-modern era Arab weapons as best as I could.

All the literature handed down to us by the likes of Al-Kindi, that has been gathered and analyzed by the likes of Prof. Abdulrahman Zaky, the poetry, the drawings in the manuscripts of the Abbasid period, the paintings within the Ummayad desert castles, indeed do portray swords.

We also have sword blades from the period that are intact, mainly in Istanbul and a certain blade in Cairo.

Unfortunately however, we have no definitive examples of hilts and scabbards from that era. The swords with original surviving hilts in Topkapi are all from the Mamluk era (I have also seen some in German Auctions), and one sword attributed to Najm Al Din Ayyub (Saladin's father) still retains its original crossguard, but the Arab swords of the earlier period have all been refitted with newer hilts and scabbards.

To note that Arab blades from that era were much longer than this Omani style; being mostly between 82-90cm long whereas I doubt that these swords exceed 80cm most of the time.

As much as I applaud your research within this field, we have yet to see a solid connection of this style of sword to the Abbasid period. Indeed it looks almost identical to the medieval Mamluk hilts, however Abbasid is and 751AD is 3 centuries earlier Ibrahim.

Even Robert Elgood with all the research he conducted, could not pinpoint the exact origin of these Omani swords, where they were made to be exact.

I do hope you strive to find more information about these swords and their origins, as with Arab weapons info is very hard to come by.

Apart from what was gathered by Abdulrahman Zaky, I have come to a dead stop in my research of the weapons of pre-modern Arabia, as nothing has survived.

Salaams S.Al-Anizi, You are absolutely right. I too have arrived at a dead stop regarding information on this weapon. Most of the museums with a Sayf Yamaani example are known to me but none seem to pinpoint its origins though I am sure the closest will be in Istanbul at the Topkapi... Being called Sayf Yamaani may point to a Hadramaut origin but nothing is proven. I have to say that the only detective work we have in our favour is one of logical assessment: We know it must be earlier than first thought and crude ideas that it was a Portuguese sword or that its origins were in the 17th C were of course nonsense. Reasoned write ups have placed the weapon in the region of 1000 AD... Quite how that has been arrived at "Out of the Blue" has not been explained but I believe the direction is correct but falls short.

The periods in Omani History that need to be considered are After its conversion to Islam, Oman was ruled by Umayyads between 661–750, Abbasids between 750–931, 932–933 and 934–967, Qarmatians between 931–932 and 933–934, Buyids between 967–1053, and the Seljuks of Kirman between 1053–1154....combined with the 751AD date of the defenders through initially Ibn Julanda.

Thinking logically there was no reason to have a battle sword (adopted until today) appear in those timeframes unless it was a hugely important weapon. The only crucible for the appearance of a sword of that nature with an Islamic Hilt as the nations adopted battle sword was with Ibn Julanda... thus it takes on the appearance of a very early Sword of The Prophet ... Pre dating it 250 years before the year 1000 AD in fact is nothing since after that it has marched on until today more than another 1000 years. Moreover if it was indeed the Iconic religious weapon that I suspect then it may well precede 750 AD and be more in line with about 650 A.D.

Regretably there are no swords to compare in the Umayyad period as none seem to exist...so that we appear wedged in between the Abassid period and about 1000 AD... No weapons were buried with bodies and no examples of such an early sword exists..

We know that Saaid bin Sultan Iconized the hilt having it covered in silver like the Royal Khanjar in the 19th C and I have sketches of it on Sultan Bargash and a photo of it with The Ruler today. We also know that the Sayf Yamaani was used with the Omani Terrs shield and that this was the only battle Sword in the early era.

The words of the late Anthony North echo in the words he describes in Islamic Arms in his opening paragraph where he describes Islamic weapons as once accepted as effective so they hardly ever changed, thus, the vast timescale that the Sayf Yamaani continued to be made and used down the ages....and by no other warriors except the Omanis.

It is for these reasons that I suspect it was an Iconic Religious weapon( Ibaathi) and why it has stuck around for so long.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

An interesting reference can be seen at http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/08/13...slamic-swords/

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

On inspection of The Maqamat (Stories of Arabia) of al-Hariri at

https://www.pinterest.com/mahboobee/...eriod/?lp=true

I discovered in the manuscript artwork two instances of the straight sword with turned down quilons; One which is often quoted as being the sword Sayf Yamaani (with the two camels). The second picture also painted more than 1000 years ago shows the same style of weapon as the first ...

According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri, c.1225-35 A.D. For example an almost identical sword dated to the 12th-14th century is published in the Sotheby's catalogue of Islamic and Indian Art London 24-25 April 1991 lot 1113.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

This is a scoop!

Salaams All ~
I have searched high and low for a picture of H.M. Sultan Qaboos, the current Ruler with an Omani Battle Sword... and had all but given up... Readers may recall the sketch of Sultan Bargash with such a weapon in the late 19th C. I believe this picture is from about 1975.

Here is the Royal Hilt (see #8 also)...in worked silver with gold accoutrements to the scabbard. The Hilt is a derivative of the Omani Royal Khanjar hilt style designed by Sheherazad...in about 1850 by a wife of a previous Sultan.(she also designed the Turban shown here). Thus the battle sword achieved Royal recognition and with its special hilt it takes its honourable place in history.

Members may remember that the Omani Dancing Sword invented after the start of the current ruling Dynasty in 1744, was designed in broadsword form, with a conical hilt from the slavers curved Kattara sword, with sharp edges and a round tip like this weapon. In addition the Terrs shield was given over to the dancing sword from its place with this Battle Sword as a mark of respect and for the traditions and pageants (The Funun).

The Battle Sword blade is very rigid, wing shaped by cross section (not flat), razor sharp on both edges and in its ancient form often without fullers. The tip is rounded not pointed as the main technique, using a small buckler shield (Terrs) was for speed work , slashing and chopping.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams All~ It is the sword above that Padttbrugge a member of a Dutch Ship which visited Muscat in 1672/3 describes down to fine detail of the scabbard and blade...The blade described as heavy and rigid..or not flexible...and of broadsword style.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The Omani Battle Sword...Sayf Yamaani...Suggesting a make location of Hadramaut.

I will try to post larger format... The single sword to right of group is a three dot at the throat blade and one at the tip. On the group picture the right hand weapon also has 3 dots at the throat... perhaps the dots indicate a superior maker...In the case of that sword it is silvered about the hilt ...in rather crude form and in an effort to give the sword the appearance of the Royal Hilt please see #8...from the style brought in by Said The Great (or his wife Sheherazad) All the blades are thick and non flexible with rounded tips...ideal for slash and chop behind a fast shield action ...shield (Terrs) is shown.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim thank you for posting these examples, and it is good to see this thread again and recall the great traction here in discovering more on these swords, their origins, and perspectives on the relationships in the developed forms.
The factor of the triple dots and single toward the tip on the blades is one of those mysterious conundrums in the study of these and a number of other forms that though often evident, is yet to be explained. The strategic placement of these suggests of course some sort of symbolic, perhaps even talismanic application which we can only surmise.

These 'battle swords' as we determined, while used in Omani regions indeed seems to often have been with notable Yemeni associations mostly for the blades, in many cases trade types having entered the southern Arabian peninsula from the west.

[Jens Nordlunde]

I can not get it clear what your pictures shows Ibrahiim, as I cant blow them up, but if I understand Jim correctly there are three dots at the beginning of the fuller, and three dots at the end of the fuller - is that correct?
If this is so, then it is seen on Indian blades as well.
Jens

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

I can not get it clear what your pictures shows Ibrahiim, as I cant blow them up, but if I understand Jim correctly there are three dots at the beginning of the fuller, and three dots at the end of the fuller - is that correct?
If this is so, then it is seen on Indian blades as well.
Jens

Salaams Jens Nordlunde Yes the pictures I have battled with but I will get better pictures of these and the rest of a mixed Arabian Swords numbering perhaps 150 plus weapons..These came in on the phone...The 3 dots are just 3 inches in front of the guard on the blade at the throat . Occasionally only one dot...and I have seen 2 in the same position. A single dot can also be seen at the tip...about half an inch from the end.
I have it that these were to either mark a superior blade or made by a superior craftsman. There is always the possibility as noted by Jim above that these were talismanic ...The single dot being illustrative of the centre of the universe and the talismanic association with the geometric figure 3. There are interestingly three beads dangling from the end of sets of Islamic prayer beads said to prevent the devil climbing up....
I experimented with microsoft word and copying the pictures and placing on word then just expand the single blade and the three dots become visible... untill I can get better pictures...
I note that we have few pictures of these dots, however, at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...t=Omani+Swords there is a good 3 dot example on what was a snapped blade and kindly posted by Michael Blalock at #61.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Jens, exactly what I was thinking of, the placement of these three dots at key spots on the blade, I think it was tulwars at the terminus of a fuller, also at key points on the blade (I always thought of point of percussion etc.).
Naturally the thought is toward the trimurti (trinity) but again, only surmised.

With the Arab blades, it seems (per Yucel) that these gold filled holes in the blade were for good fortune or perhaps protection to the swordsman. It is unclear on the numbers as they seem to range from one to several, as well as the location on the blade.

What is interesting is that in North Africa, the most western sector of this trade network of blades, seems to have adopted the placement of filled holes with yellow metal as seen in a number of examples from Sudan into the Sahara. I need to find my notes as well as rechecking Yucel.

While not of course the main topic of this thread, which pertains to the sayf Yemeni overall, as always attending to certain subtopics like this can sometimes provide clues in the diffusion of blades and symbolic elements revealing contact and interaction between cultures.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Jens, exactly what I was thinking of, the placement of these three dots at key spots on the blade, I think it was tulwars at the terminus of a fuller, also at key points on the blade (I always thought of point of percussion etc.).
Naturally the thought is toward the trimurti (trinity) but again, only surmised.

With the Arab blades, it seems (per Yucel) that these gold filled holes in the blade were for good fortune or perhaps protection to the swordsman. It is unclear on the numbers as they seem to range from one to several, as well as the location on the blade.

What is interesting is that in North Africa, the most western sector of this trade network of blades, seems to have adopted the placement of filled holes with yellow metal as seen in a number of examples from Sudan into the Sahara. I need to find my notes as well as rechecking Yucel.

While not of course the main topic of this thread, which pertains to the sayf Yemeni overall, as always attending to certain subtopics like this can sometimes provide clues in the diffusion of blades and symbolic elements revealing contact and interaction between cultures.

Salaams Jim ...I saw a reference on this sword style where it indicates, I Quote"...According to David Alexander, one of the leading experts on Islamic arms and armour where he describes a related sword in the Nasser D.K Khalili Collection in the book "The Arts of War" by David Alexander, swords of this type were used in Oman and the Gulf area from 1000 A.D. until the17th-18th century and can be seen in early Arab paintings such as a miniature in a copy of the Maqamat of al-Hariri..."Unquote, however, I couldn't find the painting...of the miniature....

I don't altogether agree with the 18th C since we know the sword was in use after that as it is seen in a sketch of Sultan Bargash and in fact with the current Ruler ...in use certainly in the later case in its Royal Hilt form. Perhaps the reference above suggests that its use in wars was of those dates but there is no proof that it stopped being used after the 18th C.

I also question its start date as 11 th Century as it is not tied to anything ...and in which case simply would need to have appeared from nowhere? The earlier date is far more logical being tied to the former Abassiid style seen at the Topkapi and coincides with the first Imam of Oman Ibn Julanda in 751 ad... though my thought is that if it has origins in a Sword of the Prophet it may well be from around 600 ad...and certainly not the late appearance 400 years after....out of the blue...so to speak! In short I suggest that this weapon is by its very nature an Iconic Islamic Battlesword whos design stretches back to the 7th Century after which it froze...design wise until the mid 19th C when its hilt was redesigned with a Royal Hilt (but by no means in all cases) and even appears today as such...see earlier post at #69.

Could this weapon have been either introduced in 630 ad when Oman was converted en masse ...or by the exiled from Iraq Jabr Ibn Zayd who died in 711 ad and was a great leader from Nizwa region.....or by the first Imam of Oman in 751 ad ~I leave those questions penciled in the margin.

I remind readers that the absence of weapons in graves follows the tradition that items were and are not buried with bodies(in this case regrettably!) thus no sword has yet been found in a burial site save one apparently that was unearthed in Jebal Akhdar a few hundred years ago...

See an astonishing example with cartouche (I couldnt decipher) at http://www.trocadero.com/101antiques...tem747179.html Note the octagonal hilt and pommel as well as the three holes in the hilt...and the detail of zig zag decoration vvvvvvv on the cuff. Help is requested for a translation of that.

So that students of Islamic Arms and Armour can more easily see the relevant references I include from the above website Quote" REFERENSES:Askeri Museum Istanbul Turkey.inv.nos.2382 and 7620; for the latter see Alexandr 1985,no75 and Fig.4;other examples include Topkapi Sarayi Museum ,Istanbul,no1/2765;Wallace Collection, London England ,no1796;The Metropolitan Museum of Art,New York,no1987.43;and Splendeur des armes orientales 1988,no11 and Elgood, 1994,nos 2.13 and 2.15..MEASUREMENTS: The overall length is 87.7 cm (34 ½ in). Width of the blade at the widest point: 5.4 cm (2 1/16 inches)"Unquote.

As a finishing note please consider the name ...Sayf Yamaani. Omani names for weapons stuck... never changed... for example the Omani long gun.. Abu Futtila...thus in the naming of this sword Sayf Yamaani could this be an indicator for origin of manufacture; Hadramaut in Yemen.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.