Noth African sword

blue lander · 21st December 2013, 10:21 PM

Dang, they tried to deliver the package today but I wasn't here to sign for it. Oh well, I'll get it Monday. That should give me some time to absorb some more of this thread.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 22nd December 2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue lander

Dang, they tried to deliver the package today but I wasn't here to sign for it. Oh well, I'll get it Monday. That should give me some time to absorb some more of this thread.

Salaams blue lander... Absorb this!

I would like to look at Nimcha.

As always I urge reference in the direction of Forum Library first. Comparison Moroccan and Zanzibari is at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...zANZIBAR+SWORD

There is a great picture of a similar hilt on the sword of Tobias Blose a Captain in the Great Bands of London in the famous book by the late Antony North (Islamic Arms and Armour). Interestingly this sword plus a variation in the hilt guard etc. surfaced in Zanzibar...with the design addition of a hilt d ring and other variants appeared in the Red Sea regions...It seems plausible that design influence may have played its part in the construction of the Sri Lankan Kastane.

Spanish involvement in the design flow across the Med seems certain as http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=hilts seems to indicate ...

Since Spain was largely involved in the South America discoveries (what I mean is that a Papal act assured Spain of its rights in that region whilst doing the same for Portugal in the Indian Ocean) there are also styles of sword there with obvious linkages. It seems inevitable that a certain amount of dizziness will become apparent as sword transition from the Med influences far eastern designs across the Pacific from the Americas...
The pictures below;

THE PORTRAIT PICTURE; ...Portrait of Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud ben Mohammed Anoun, ambassador to England from the King of Barbary (Morocco), unknown artist, England, c. 1600. Oil on panel.

(Detail below suggests the link between the swords appearing on the waist of English officers and nobles in that period see Tobias Blose note.)

From Wikepedia; Quote."Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud, Moorish ambassador of the Barbary States to the Court of Queen Elizabeth I in 1600.
Following the sailing of The Lion of Thomas Wyndham in 1551, and the 1585 establishment of the English Barbary Company, trade developed between England and the Barbary states, and especially Morocco. Diplomatic relations and an alliance were established between Elizabeth and the Barbary states. England entered in a trading relationship with Morocco detrimental to Spain, selling armour, ammunition, timber, metal in exchange for Moroccan sugar, in spite of a Papal ban, prompting the Papal Nuncio in Spain to say of Elizabeth: "there is no evil that is not devised by that woman, who, it is perfectly plain, succoured Mulocco (Abd-el-Malek) with arms, and especially with artillery".

In 1600, Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud, the principal secretary to the Moroccan ruler Mulai Ahmad al-Mansur, visited England as an ambassador to the court of Queen Elizabeth I.Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud spent 6 months at the court of Elizabeth, in order to negotiate an alliance against Spain. The Moroccan ruler wanted the help of an English fleet to invade Spain, Elizabeth refused, but welcomed the embassy as a sign of insurance, and instead accepted to establish commercial agreements. Queen Elizabeth and king Ahmad continued to discuss various plans for combined military operations, with Elizabeth requesting a payment of 100,000 pounds in advance to king Ahmad for the supply of a fleet, and Ahmad asking for a tall ship to be sent to get the money. Elizabeth "agreed to sell munitions supplies to Morocco, and she and Mulai Ahmad al-Mansur talked on and off about mounting a joint operation against the Spanish". Discussions however remained inconclusive, and both rulers died within two years of the embassy." Unquote.

Two triple photos of the same swords from library.

Golden Kastane set with Gems and scabbard.

The Omani Zanzibari Nimcha worn as a badge of office thus for comfort perhaps? no D ring but with dragons head quillons (the more practical fighting version sometimes having quillons that support a d ring)

Buttins famous page included.

The gentleman in sandy yellow robes wearing a Moroccan sword ...

Wearing blue robes~ Portrait of Mohammed ben Ali Abghali by Enoch Seeman
Inscribed: Portrait of his Excellency Admiral Hadge Abdulcader Perez, Ambassador from the Emperor of Morocco to the Court of St. James November 1723 – September 1724 and again July 1737 – July 1741
Circa 1740.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd December 2013, 09:46 AM

Flyssa !

To my eye the Flyssa looks like it has.. Yatagan ... influence.

Salaams all..From the Atkinson collection; Quote."The flyssa is the typical knife of the Kabyle people, a branch of the Berbers who reside in Algeria and Morocco. The name “Flyssa” is drawn from the “Iflissen Lebhar”, one of the major tribal confederations of the Kabyle. The eastern most group of the Kabyle is the At Zouaou who live in the Djurdua range of Little Atlas mountains in NE Algeria This tribe that has specialized as the armorers and creators of the flyssa. Among young men of the Kabyle, the acquisition of his sword (or dagger in later periods) was a sort of rite of passage. Elaborate symbolism decorates the flyssa, and these symbols (amuletic geometric figures) are a key to the folk religion in these regions".Unquote.

History
The Kabyle are Berbers located primarily in Morocco, Tunisia, western Libya, and the coastal mountain regions of northern Algeria. The Africans call this entire region of North Africa Maghrib. "Berber" comes from an Arabic name for the aboriginal people west and south of Egypt.

The Kabyle live in the rugged, well-watered al-Quabail Mountains. These inaccessible peaks (some as high as 7,000 feet) have long been a refuge for the Berbers, forming a base of resistance against the Romans, Vandals, Byzantine, and Arabs.

The Flyssa exists as a dagger and sword both. There is a child weilding a Flyssa sword at #41 third sword from the right... Also pictured are Yatagan.

Below some more including;

Long and short Flyssa versions.

A '"Khodmi bu Saadi" a sister knife to the Flyssa.. with the reddish scabbard.

Yatagan for comparison on the female model posing for the Orientalist artist.

"The Arms Merchant" by Rudolph Ernst completes my vignette showing the design link with Yatagan.

The short, curious, very curved other variant of Algerian Flyssa.

On a red carpet background two Flyssa.

That rounds off my Flyssa details..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 23rd December 2013, 02:47 PM

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th December 2013, 11:22 AM

Salaams all ~ For an excellent comparison and cross breed see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17081
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

blue lander · 24th December 2013, 10:41 PM

It finally arrived! It's in terrific shape but the hilt's a little wobbly. I'll take better pictures later, but I took pics of two things I immediately noticed (apologies for the blurriness)

1: there's diagonal lines along the spine by the hilt. They only continue for a few inches, the rest is flat.

2: the back scale of the hilt is definitely wood, but I think the decorated front side might be bone or perhaps wood covered with something?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 25th December 2013, 02:25 PM

Salaams Note to Library;

To round off the Moroccan Nimcha I would like to offer a four artworks as under;
Eugene-Delacroix "Soldier of the Moroccan Imperial Guard-1845.
DELACROIX_Eugene The Sultan of Morocco and his Entourage_1845.
Nimcha Artist and date unknown Morocco. 19thC.
Constant le Caid 1873 . Morocco.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

blue lander · 25th December 2013, 03:55 PM

Also of note - the wooden scales have shrunk enough that I could peer between them with a flashlight. It doesnt look like the tang extends past the first rivet, the one beneath the leather wrap. The back two rivets are just for holding the scales together. The wood's so old, I think the only thing keeping it together is that leather wrap. You can see some damage to the wood beneath the leather where it's torn away so I assume it was added later as a repair.

blue lander · 27th December 2013, 04:21 PM

Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine.

I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula.

Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine

23rd December 2013, 09:46 AM	#3
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Flyssa ! To my eye the Flyssa looks like it has.. Yatagan ... influence. Salaams all..From the Atkinson collection; Quote."The flyssa is the typical knife of the Kabyle people, a branch of the Berbers who reside in Algeria and Morocco. The name “Flyssa” is drawn from the “Iflissen Lebhar”, one of the major tribal confederations of the Kabyle. The eastern most group of the Kabyle is the At Zouaou who live in the Djurdua range of Little Atlas mountains in NE Algeria This tribe that has specialized as the armorers and creators of the flyssa. Among young men of the Kabyle, the acquisition of his sword (or dagger in later periods) was a sort of rite of passage. Elaborate symbolism decorates the flyssa, and these symbols (amuletic geometric figures) are a key to the folk religion in these regions".Unquote. History The Kabyle are Berbers located primarily in Morocco, Tunisia, western Libya, and the coastal mountain regions of northern Algeria. The Africans call this entire region of North Africa Maghrib. "Berber" comes from an Arabic name for the aboriginal people west and south of Egypt. The Kabyle live in the rugged, well-watered al-Quabail Mountains. These inaccessible peaks (some as high as 7,000 feet) have long been a refuge for the Berbers, forming a base of resistance against the Romans, Vandals, Byzantine, and Arabs. The Flyssa exists as a dagger and sword both. There is a child weilding a Flyssa sword at #41 third sword from the right... Also pictured are Yatagan. Below some more including; Long and short Flyssa versions. A '"Khodmi bu Saadi" a sister knife to the Flyssa.. with the reddish scabbard. Yatagan for comparison on the female model posing for the Orientalist artist. "The Arms Merchant" by Rudolph Ernst completes my vignette showing the design link with Yatagan. The short, curious, very curved other variant of Algerian Flyssa. On a red carpet background two Flyssa. That rounds off my Flyssa details.. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 23rd December 2013 at 12:15 PM.

24th December 2013, 11:22 AM	#5
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Nimcha Flyssa Yat Salaams all ~ For an excellent comparison and cross breed see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17081 Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

24th December 2013, 10:41 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	It finally arrived! It's in terrific shape but the hilt's a little wobbly. I'll take better pictures later, but I took pics of two things I immediately noticed (apologies for the blurriness) 1: there's diagonal lines along the spine by the hilt. They only continue for a few inches, the rest is flat. 2: the back scale of the hilt is definitely wood, but I think the decorated front side might be bone or perhaps wood covered with something? Attached Images

25th December 2013, 02:25 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Note to Library; To round off the Moroccan Nimcha I would like to offer a four artworks as under; Eugene-Delacroix "Soldier of the Moroccan Imperial Guard-1845. DELACROIX_Eugene The Sultan of Morocco and his Entourage_1845. Nimcha Artist and date unknown Morocco. 19thC. Constant le Caid 1873 . Morocco. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 25th December 2013 at 03:26 PM.

25th December 2013, 03:55 PM	#8
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Also of note - the wooden scales have shrunk enough that I could peer between them with a flashlight. It doesnt look like the tang extends past the first rivet, the one beneath the leather wrap. The back two rivets are just for holding the scales together. The wood's so old, I think the only thing keeping it together is that leather wrap. You can see some damage to the wood beneath the leather where it's torn away so I assume it was added later as a repair. Attached Images

21st December 2013, 10:21 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Dang, they tried to deliver the package today but I wasn't here to sign for it. Oh well, I'll get it Monday. That should give me some time to absorb some more of this thread.

23rd December 2013, 02:47 PM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 24th December 2013 at 11:21 AM.

27th December 2013, 04:21 PM	#9
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Some less blurry photos of the crosses, the moon, and the diagonal lines on the spine. I also noticed the part of the spine with the diagonal lines is actually a bit thinner than the rest of the blade. I wonder if it was filed down as part of it's transformation into a s'boula. Edit: on closer inspection the whole spine has file marks, they're just fainter on the rest of the spine Attached Images Last edited by blue lander; 27th December 2013 at 09:22 PM.