dagger series, small landsknecht dagger 1520

cornelistromp · 12th December 2013, 08:35 PM

Now the contest who has the biggest is over.
lets try, I know it is not easy, to go back to the dagger.

The ergonomics of the handle of the rondel dagger implies that it was used almost exclusively in the underhand style .
apart from that, the overarm blow with a downward-pointing blade is much powerful than an underarm trust.
a overarm blow is a natural innate reflex of humans.

The image of a dagger fight in Solothurn fechtbuch around 1500, by the way with a dagger with bulky pommels of the type above, clearly illustrates this.
see also the study sketch of Durer, a hand that grasps a rondel dagger firmly.

cornelistromp · 13th December 2013, 06:40 PM

the Met landsknecht dagger

cornelistromp · 3rd January 2014, 08:02 AM

landsknechtdagger, Rothenburg museum.

Justin King · 5th January 2014, 03:01 PM

I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces!

cornelistromp · 6th January 2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin King

I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces!

Hi Justin,

welcome to the forum.
nice that you like the article, which is a compliment in itself.
Everyone knows the classification of daggers in 5 groups;
Guillon-, ballock-, rondel dagger, basilard and cinquedea.
(hauswehr is placed under knifes)
but it is mainly the subgroups of those daggers that makes it interesting stuff.
In my posts DAGGER SERIES , I try to describe a dozen with examples from literature, art and collections.

thanks+best,
Jasper

Justin King · 6th January 2014, 01:59 PM

Thank you for the welcome, that was my first post here although I have been enjoying this forum for a few years now. I am following your dagger series and have seen some wonderful examples and variations, but I have a particular fascination with landsknecht daggers so this thread finally inspired me to post.
Leonid Tarassuk mentioned in his article that the 2 examples at the Met belong to a typological group of 9, but until now I had only ever seen the 2 and have been hungering to see more, so your example is exciting for me to see.

cornelistromp · 6th January 2014, 06:55 PM

welcome, in this case we share the same passion

I believe that the criterion used by Leonid Tarassuk is;
a landsknecht a dagger where the s or 8 shaped inner guard is removed (cut off in half) to get a better parry action while protecting the wrist.

as an example, he publishes a landsknecht dagger figure 5. of the same type as one from my collection, see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=river

I do not support this hypothesis, I think those landsknechtdaggers have a flat side so that they can be worn comfortably along the body.

This is also supported by JP Puype in A & A of knigths and landsknechts.
'm Curious about the other seven daggers of this type in the MET, he mentiones.
I think they can be of different types then the ones with a pair of classes.

best,

12th December 2013, 08:35 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Now the contest who has the biggest is over. lets try, I know it is not easy, to go back to the dagger. The ergonomics of the handle of the rondel dagger implies that it was used almost exclusively in the underhand style . apart from that, the overarm blow with a downward-pointing blade is much powerful than an underarm trust. a overarm blow is a natural innate reflex of humans. The image of a dagger fight in Solothurn fechtbuch around 1500, by the way with a dagger with bulky pommels of the type above, clearly illustrates this. see also the study sketch of Durer, a hand that grasps a rondel dagger firmly. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 12th December 2013 at 08:50 PM.

13th December 2013, 06:40 PM	#2
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	the Met landsknecht dagger Attached Images

3rd January 2014, 08:02 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	landsknechtdagger, Rothenburg museum. Attached Images

5th January 2014, 03:01 PM	#4
Justin King Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	I am grateful to Cornelistromp for posting this, I am keenly interested in this family of daggers with the eyeglass-shaped parry plate, and examples seem to be very rare. The 2 examples at the Met are familiar to me and have become a bit of a personal obsession, although I have not seen them in person. Absolutely beautiful pieces! Last edited by Justin King; 5th January 2014 at 11:58 PM.

6th January 2014, 01:59 PM	#6
Justin King Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3	Thank you for the welcome, that was my first post here although I have been enjoying this forum for a few years now. I am following your dagger series and have seen some wonderful examples and variations, but I have a particular fascination with landsknecht daggers so this thread finally inspired me to post. Leonid Tarassuk mentioned in his article that the 2 examples at the Met belong to a typological group of 9, but until now I had only ever seen the 2 and have been hungering to see more, so your example is exciting for me to see.

6th January 2014, 06:55 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	welcome, in this case we share the same passion I believe that the criterion used by Leonid Tarassuk is; a landsknecht a dagger where the s or 8 shaped inner guard is removed (cut off in half) to get a better parry action while protecting the wrist. as an example, he publishes a landsknecht dagger figure 5. of the same type as one from my collection, see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=river I do not support this hypothesis, I think those landsknechtdaggers have a flat side so that they can be worn comfortably along the body. This is also supported by JP Puype in A & A of knigths and landsknechts. 'm Curious about the other seven daggers of this type in the MET, he mentiones. I think they can be of different types then the ones with a pair of classes. best,