Another Moro sword for ID

Tim Simmons · 2nd November 2005, 08:37 PM

I now little of these things, so I need things explained. From what I can see Freddy has acquired an old blade and the handle appears contemporary to the blade, at a very good price I might add. To my limited knowledge it does not look like a tourist item, yet to my untrained eye the blade does look a little unusual especially around the hilt. This weapon looks a lot older and indeed used rather than the one that started the thread. I am waiting to be enlightened. Tim

Rick · 2nd November 2005, 09:44 PM

I doubt the blade is that old ; post 30's or much later .
The details at the base of the blade are kris-like but basically look like hacksaw cuts .
I've never seen a Moro blade that has detailing like this .
Possibly this blade is made after the Moro style .

Now a Moro tourist blade has some slight resemblance .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../20cdetail.jpg
Still it looks like a Moro blade .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ad/20cfull.jpg

Battara · 3rd November 2005, 01:12 AM

AS we have mentioned before on this forum, it is a Lumad mix. The hilt is T'boli and the kris blade is probably also made by them copied to some degree from the Moro.

kai · 3rd November 2005, 02:20 AM

From my POV Freddy got a nice blade, especially considering the price. As already explained it's not Moro though and I'd also won't call this a kris (nor keris). It's certainly inspired by the Moro kris (remember these peoples are neighbors) but those details on the gangya area would IMVHO never be done by a traditional Moro panday (nor within any other keris culture - wether Hindu or Muslim). There have been quite a few of these non-Moro blades lately and while the details vary quite a bit they always look wrong/weird if compared with legitimate Moro pieces. Some even have a notch copying the elefant trunk but may omit the lower lip or are otherwise quite obviously non-Moro. Of course, this isn't a "bad thing" (tm) and these blades deserve to be collected in their own right - especially if they appear to be original, complete pieces. There was a fairly recent thread here and I'll try to post pics of some more examples in there tomorrow.

There also have been a lot of Moro-made kris blades with non-Moro hilts for sale. While some of these are certainly genuine pieces (trade blades or captured and subsequently refitted), most appear to be recent, "forced" marriages. I can't help to think of these as intended to peak collector's curiosity and to sell off blades of lower quality with a more gaudy hilt. Excessive pitch or even glue seems to be a dead give-away for contemporary manipulation/refitting (traditional artisans were apparently more careful a century ago). However, this clue is often visible with other hilts rather than with T'boli or Bagobo brass hilts (due to their construction).

Regards,
Kai

Rick · 3rd November 2005, 03:55 AM

So Tim , are you now enlightened ?

Tim Simmons · 3rd November 2005, 06:44 PM

Yes a little more in the know but a few more pictures to help illustrate the differences would have been helpfull. Thanks Tim

kai · 3rd November 2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

a few more pictures to help illustrate the differences would have been helpfull

I'm working on it, Tim!

Regards,
Kai

zamboanga · 3rd November 2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I doubt the blade is that old ; post 30's or much later .
The details at the base of the blade are kris-like but basically look like hacksaw cuts .
I've never seen a Moro blade that has detailing like this .
Possibly this blade is made after the Moro style .

Now a Moro tourist blade has some slight resemblance .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../20cdetail.jpg
Still it looks like a Moro blade .
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ad/20cfull.jpg

The first picture is a classic tourist item. Made out of galvanized iron (G.I.) pipe split open using acetylene torch. Why G.I. pipe? it's cheap and easier to etch those lines on. A finished piece like this is sold at the local (Zamboanga) market for about $20-40.

2nd November 2005, 08:37 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I now little of these things, so I need things explained. From what I can see Freddy has acquired an old blade and the handle appears contemporary to the blade, at a very good price I might add. To my limited knowledge it does not look like a tourist item, yet to my untrained eye the blade does look a little unusual especially around the hilt. This weapon looks a lot older and indeed used rather than the one that started the thread. I am waiting to be enlightened. Tim

2nd November 2005, 09:44 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I doubt the blade is that old ; post 30's or much later . The details at the base of the blade are kris-like but basically look like hacksaw cuts . I've never seen a Moro blade that has detailing like this . Possibly this blade is made after the Moro style . Now a Moro tourist blade has some slight resemblance . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../20cdetail.jpg Still it looks like a Moro blade . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ad/20cfull.jpg

3rd November 2005, 01:12 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	AS we have mentioned before on this forum, it is a Lumad mix. The hilt is T'boli and the kris blade is probably also made by them copied to some degree from the Moro.

3rd November 2005, 02:20 AM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	From my POV Freddy got a nice blade, especially considering the price. As already explained it's not Moro though and I'd also won't call this a kris (nor keris). It's certainly inspired by the Moro kris (remember these peoples are neighbors) but those details on the gangya area would IMVHO never be done by a traditional Moro panday (nor within any other keris culture - wether Hindu or Muslim). There have been quite a few of these non-Moro blades lately and while the details vary quite a bit they always look wrong/weird if compared with legitimate Moro pieces. Some even have a notch copying the elefant trunk but may omit the lower lip or are otherwise quite obviously non-Moro. Of course, this isn't a "bad thing" (tm) and these blades deserve to be collected in their own right - especially if they appear to be original, complete pieces. There was a fairly recent thread here and I'll try to post pics of some more examples in there tomorrow. There also have been a lot of Moro-made kris blades with non-Moro hilts for sale. While some of these are certainly genuine pieces (trade blades or captured and subsequently refitted), most appear to be recent, "forced" marriages. I can't help to think of these as intended to peak collector's curiosity and to sell off blades of lower quality with a more gaudy hilt. Excessive pitch or even glue seems to be a dead give-away for contemporary manipulation/refitting (traditional artisans were apparently more careful a century ago). However, this clue is often visible with other hilts rather than with T'boli or Bagobo brass hilts (due to their construction). Regards, Kai

3rd November 2005, 03:55 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	So Tim , are you now enlightened ?

3rd November 2005, 06:44 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes a little more in the know but a few more pictures to help illustrate the differences would have been helpfull. Thanks Tim