H4ow to count Luk???

[ariel]

Vanna Ghirighelli mentions in her book that she has two 12-luk and one 10-luk kerises. She further states that the number 12 is the indonesian ideal of harmony.
True?

[David]

Ariel, i have certainly heard the idea of 12 being a significant number in Javanese Mysticism and that one can find the occasional rare 12 luk keris, but i can't say that i ever saw one that couldn't be interpreted as either actually 13 or perhaps a 13 luk keris that has been worn down sufficiently over time and now only appears to be 12. This is not to say that a 12 luk keris does not exist, but when you ask if this is "true" i think you enter into a fluid territory. If you read Alan's treatise on the subject you will note his hypothesis that the number of luk are based upon certain Hindu principles that were part of the Javanese culture at the time of the origin of the keris. At some point since the advent of Islam Java this system/method of counting underwent a change. So, do we count Ms. Ghirighelli's 12 luk keris as 12 or 10? Does it matter if the keris being counted originated in a Hundu or Islamic Jawa? Is it more likely that a keris breaks from the long tradition embraced in both the Hindu and Islamic influenced Javanese cultures of odd numbered luk or that the blade simply worn down over time to appear as an even number? I think what is "true" in this case might depend upon what belief system you choose to embrace.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ariel, I have often heard of keris with an even number of luk, but whenever I've actually seen these even luk keris they have invariably appeared to me to be as David has suggested:- older keris that have been altered, perhaps because of damage.

In no keris tradition of which I know, is the existence of a keris with an even number of luk a valid occurrence.

I have yet to hear any acknowledged ahli keris in Jawa accept the existence of an even numbered keris, however, I have quite frequently heard of keris with an even number of luk from salesmen and those who dwell on the fringe of the World of the Keris.

My personal opinion is that the keris with an even number of luk was never created as an original and valid production. However, as with many things associated with the keris, all are entitled to their own opinions.

[Battara]

I have always read that a lucky and good keris should have an odd number of luks. To my understanding this applies to Indonesian keris and Moro kris both.

[Jean]

IMO (which may be argued) these two blades can be interpreted as having an even number of luks (respectively 6 and 12 luks) according to the modern counting method. However they have an odd number of luks (respectively 5 and 11 luks) according to the Hindu method. This is the case everytime the last luk points to the back of the blade (wadidang) and not to the front (ganja). The first blade shown has been worn-out with age but the second one is a recently made piece.
Regards

[Sajen]

Hello Jean,

I count by the old blade 7 luk and by the recent one 13 luk.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jean]

Hello Detlef,
If you start counting the luks from the first concave one above the gandik I wonder how you can find 7 luks on the first blade? However for the other one I admit that the 13th luk can be interpreted although it is not clearly visible.
Regards