Moro kris gangya covered

kino · 7th October 2013, 04:02 AM

Through my searches I couldn't find a discussion on this. I thought there was one before.
I'm wondering what the consensus was, if anyone can recall.

A Kris with its gangya covered with metal. I think it's brass.

Battara · 7th October 2013, 05:28 AM

Well I don't recall the previous discussion, but for now I'll share these impressions:

1. The brass covering may be to mask damage.

2. I noticed remnants of okir on both sides of the brass coverings.

I'm quite sure that you already thought of these, but I mention them anyway.

CharlesS · 7th October 2013, 01:15 PM

This is one of the stranger features I have ever seen on a Moro kriss.

VANDOO · 7th October 2013, 06:31 PM

VERY INTERESTING I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE. TO ME THIS LOOKS WORSE THAN ANY POSSIBLE DAMMAGE IT COVERS. PERHAPS IT IS THERE TO PROTECT THE WEARERS CLOTHES OR REGALIA FROM BEING SNAGGED AND TORN THAT WOULD BE A PRACTICAL APPLICATION BUT TO ME WOULD STILL LOOK BAD.

David · 7th October 2013, 06:34 PM

For some reason i seem to recall seeing kris where features have obviously been defaced. The removal of greneng for example or the "elephant" face on the front side. I don't completely remember the discussion or what folks thought the reasoning was. But this seems like it could be the same thing without damaging the blade. Might be interesting to have it x-rayed to see if the features are fully intact.

Spunjer · 7th October 2013, 08:55 PM

here's a theory:
they figured the future generation (us) would go by the elephant trunk theory to figure out what tribe made the particular kris, so they put a cover on it to negate the theory...

looks like whoever owned it originally probably added the brass cover to beautify the kris, lol. with the kris in scabbard and those brass sticking out, it does look sharp.
my question is, what's the purpose of the rattan bind?

it appears both baka2x are present...

David · 7th October 2013, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

my question is, what's the purpose of the rattan bind?

it appears both baka2x are present...

My guess is that the rattan is holding the pommel on, not the blade.

Spunjer · 7th October 2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

My guess is that the rattan is holding the pommel on, not the blade.

i realize that, David, hence questioning the neccessity of the rattan bind. also, assuming (and by the look of it) the rattan was original, would it have been easier if the original owner would've just reglue the pommel???

David · 8th October 2013, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

my question is, what's the purpose of the rattan bind?

it appears both baka2x are present...

Sorry Ron, but when you presented you question like this citing the presence of the baka baka it wasn't clear to me that you were thinking about the pommel.

I guess the hardware store was closed so he made due with the rattan.

kino · 8th October 2013, 03:08 AM

There are no remnants of an okir on the covers, there are these dots design perhaps a start of an okir. The brass band of the scabbard has same dotted design.

The pommel is tight to the hilt, no wiggle. It doesn't seem like it was ever broken or repaired. Unless of course it was glued and the rattan binding was used as a clamp to stabilize the pieces until the glue dries. Maybe the binding was supposed to be discarded after the glue dries.

X-ray?, Halloween is almost upon us, perhaps I could sneak the kris in with some candy and have the local facility that provides free x-ray service for collected Halloween candy zap it.

I wonder if the covers serves as the same purpose of having the arrowhead design filled in with metal. I have seen maybe 2 kris' with the arrowhead filled in, 1 was copper filled and I can't recall what the other was.
DaveS might be the owner of 1 of those kris'.

Spunjer · 8th October 2013, 03:45 AM

lol, i wasn't thinking about the pommel to begin with, David. not til you brought it up.
lemme rephrase that:

if both baka2x were present, then why the need for rattan bind knowing that those two clamps would suffice in keeping the blade in place?

you then mentioned the pommel which was a possibility. as in the possiblity that the rattan bind was there to hold it in place.

which brought up, in my mind anyway, a more of a rethorical question on why the original owner would rather do this than glueing the pommel in place.

now that kino mentioned that the pommel is tight to the hilt, it might serve some other purpose... i notice the second set of bindings (normally three sets about quarter inch wide on top of the primary bindings are missing (or are they? can't see too well from the photos...). so i reckon the rattan binds would give it a more secure grip?

Battara · 8th October 2013, 05:18 AM

Kino Thanks for the clarification. What I thought I saw as well worn okir may just be scratches.

Sajen · 8th October 2013, 09:09 AM

Interesting kris!

Want to remember this one from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15589
The rattan binding at this one was done clearly to secure the pommel which was loose when I get it. Now it is reglued and someone who don't know that it is reglued will ask himself for which reason the rattan bindings are.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 8th October 2013, 03:47 PM

Can i ask of Detlef and anyone else who has re-glued a pommel on one of these swords what glue they used or would suggest? I have a loose pommel and i would like to avoid the rattan method.

Spunjer · 8th October 2013, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Can i ask of Detlef and anyone else who has re-glued a pommel on one of these swords what glue they used or would suggest? I have a loose pommel and i would like to avoid the rattan method.

i have been using Elmer's wood glue and they hold up pretty good. it dries clear as well...

Sajen · 8th October 2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Can i ask of Detlef and anyone else who has re-glued a pommel on one of these swords what glue they used or would suggest? I have a loose pommel and i would like to avoid the rattan method.

Hello David,

it was used wood glue for boat building.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 9th October 2013, 05:40 AM

I probably should have been more specific. Would any of your glue choices chance if the pommel was ivory?

Sajen · 9th October 2013, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I probably should have been more specific. Would any of your glue choices chance if the pommel was ivory?

In this case I would use two-component adhesive.

Battara · 10th October 2013, 12:09 AM

Frankly, I find the 2-ton epoxy works fine. If I need to take it off again, I can use heating the blade just as if it I had used pitch. This is also what Sajen is talking about.

RSWORD · 10th October 2013, 04:32 AM

While I have not see this particular feature before I have see numerous times the top of the gangya covered with a thin and narrow piece of metal and he same applies here. Why do that? I am wondering if there are some talismanic or magical properties to either?

Nirghosa · 11th October 2013, 03:36 AM

Regarding wood glue or elmers glue, does anyone know if they hold up well for acutual use? I typically like to do cutting with those items I have that are stable enough.

Sajen · 11th October 2013, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirghosa

Regarding wood glue or elmers glue, does anyone know if they hold up well for acutual use? I typically like to do cutting with those items I have that are stable enough.

In my experience yes!

Nirghosa · 14th October 2013, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

In my experience yes!

Excellent!
Much appreciated!

7th October 2013, 04:02 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Moro kris gangya covered Through my searches I couldn't find a discussion on this. I thought there was one before. I'm wondering what the consensus was, if anyone can recall. A Kris with its gangya covered with metal. I think it's brass. Attached Images

7th October 2013, 05:28 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Well I don't recall the previous discussion, but for now I'll share these impressions: 1. The brass covering may be to mask damage. 2. I noticed remnants of okir on both sides of the brass coverings. I'm quite sure that you already thought of these, but I mention them anyway.

7th October 2013, 01:15 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	This is one of the stranger features I have ever seen on a Moro kriss.

7th October 2013, 06:31 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	VERY INTERESTING I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE. TO ME THIS LOOKS WORSE THAN ANY POSSIBLE DAMMAGE IT COVERS. PERHAPS IT IS THERE TO PROTECT THE WEARERS CLOTHES OR REGALIA FROM BEING SNAGGED AND TORN THAT WOULD BE A PRACTICAL APPLICATION BUT TO ME WOULD STILL LOOK BAD.

7th October 2013, 06:34 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	For some reason i seem to recall seeing kris where features have obviously been defaced. The removal of greneng for example or the "elephant" face on the front side. I don't completely remember the discussion or what folks thought the reasoning was. But this seems like it could be the same thing without damaging the blade. Might be interesting to have it x-rayed to see if the features are fully intact.

7th October 2013, 08:55 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	here's a theory: they figured the future generation (us) would go by the elephant trunk theory to figure out what tribe made the particular kris, so they put a cover on it to negate the theory... looks like whoever owned it originally probably added the brass cover to beautify the kris, lol. with the kris in scabbard and those brass sticking out, it does look sharp. my question is, what's the purpose of the rattan bind? it appears both baka2x are present...

8th October 2013, 03:08 AM	#10
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	There are no remnants of an okir on the covers, there are these dots design perhaps a start of an okir. The brass band of the scabbard has same dotted design. The pommel is tight to the hilt, no wiggle. It doesn't seem like it was ever broken or repaired. Unless of course it was glued and the rattan binding was used as a clamp to stabilize the pieces until the glue dries. Maybe the binding was supposed to be discarded after the glue dries. X-ray?, Halloween is almost upon us, perhaps I could sneak the kris in with some candy and have the local facility that provides free x-ray service for collected Halloween candy zap it. I wonder if the covers serves as the same purpose of having the arrowhead design filled in with metal. I have seen maybe 2 kris' with the arrowhead filled in, 1 was copper filled and I can't recall what the other was. DaveS might be the owner of 1 of those kris'.

8th October 2013, 03:45 AM	#11
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	lol, i wasn't thinking about the pommel to begin with, David. not til you brought it up. lemme rephrase that: if both baka2x were present, then why the need for rattan bind knowing that those two clamps would suffice in keeping the blade in place? you then mentioned the pommel which was a possibility. as in the possiblity that the rattan bind was there to hold it in place. which brought up, in my mind anyway, a more of a rethorical question on why the original owner would rather do this than glueing the pommel in place. now that kino mentioned that the pommel is tight to the hilt, it might serve some other purpose... i notice the second set of bindings (normally three sets about quarter inch wide on top of the primary bindings are missing (or are they? can't see too well from the photos...). so i reckon the rattan binds would give it a more secure grip?

8th October 2013, 05:18 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Kino Thanks for the clarification. What I thought I saw as well worn okir may just be scratches.

8th October 2013, 09:09 AM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Interesting kris! Want to remember this one from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15589 The rattan binding at this one was done clearly to secure the pommel which was loose when I get it. Now it is reglued and someone who don't know that it is reglued will ask himself for which reason the rattan bindings are. Regards, Detlef

8th October 2013, 03:47 PM	#14
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	Can i ask of Detlef and anyone else who has re-glued a pommel on one of these swords what glue they used or would suggest? I have a loose pommel and i would like to avoid the rattan method.

9th October 2013, 05:40 AM	#17
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	I probably should have been more specific. Would any of your glue choices chance if the pommel was ivory?

10th October 2013, 12:09 AM	#19
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Frankly, I find the 2-ton epoxy works fine. If I need to take it off again, I can use heating the blade just as if it I had used pitch. This is also what Sajen is talking about.

10th October 2013, 04:32 AM	#20
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,083	While I have not see this particular feature before I have see numerous times the top of the gangya covered with a thin and narrow piece of metal and he same applies here. Why do that? I am wondering if there are some talismanic or magical properties to either?

11th October 2013, 03:36 AM	#21
Nirghosa Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 119	Regarding wood glue or elmers glue, does anyone know if they hold up well for acutual use? I typically like to do cutting with those items I have that are stable enough.