Ethnographic folding knives

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Billman

Ibrahiim - your curved knife is a form of folding billhook - used mainly for pruning of fruit trees/bushes and grape vines. Known as a serpette in France, and a roncoletta in Italy (diminutive forms of serpe and roncola respectively) - it is found all over southern Europe and the Mediterranean area. I would guess yours in probably Italian in origin, possibly from the Maniago region.
see: http://www.couteaux-jfl.com/serpettes.htm Sailors' knives tend to have a square blade, see: http://www.linder.de/en/artikel/Kniv...Sailor’s_knife

Salaams Billman ~ Thank you for that ... How interesting... can't think how it arrived here?... I shall give it a go on my Pomegranates !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Billman]

Prior to the invention of the secateurs, c 1830 and their gradual introduction into viniculture and later horticulture in the late 19th/early 20th century, all pruning of vines, fruit trees, fruit bushes, roses etc was carried out with a small billhook. Many were of a fixed blade model, but equally many were made with folding blades.

They would have originally been made locally by cutlers and edge tool makers, but post the Industrial Revolution in Europe, imports from English, German, French, Italian and Spanish makers would have been serious competition, as mass production methods brought down the cost. The same is true of many other tools and also weapons - later the USA and other countries also made and exported them. Some English, German and US makers established manufacturing plants in other countries - today some of them still survive as independent manufacturers...

Now much manufacturing by UK firms is out-sourced to India, China & Taiwan. The edge tool industries of Sheffield and the Midlands has all but disappeared, and we are importing tools from many other countries.

How the mighty are fallen.... (Samuel 2:1)

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Billman

Prior to the invention of the secateurs, c 1830 and their gradual introduction into viniculture and later horticulture in the late 19th/early 20th century, all pruning of vines, fruit trees, fruit bushes, roses etc was carried out with a small billhook. Many were of a fixed blade model, but equally many were made with folding blades.

They would have originally been made locally by cutlers and edge tool makers, but post the Industrial Revolution in Europe, imports from English, German, French, Italian and Spanish makers would have been serious competition, as mass production methods brought down the cost. The same is true of many other tools and also weapons - later the USA and other countries also made and exported them. Some English, German and US makers established manufacturing plants in other countries - today some of them still survive as independent manufacturers...

Now much manufacturing by UK firms is out-sourced to India, China & Taiwan. The edge tool industries of Sheffield and the Midlands has all but disappeered, and we are importing tools from many other countries.

How the mighty are fallen.... (Samuel 2:1)

Salaama Billman~ In Oman farm tools were made by a strange wandering group of Zutoot (Gypsies) now fully incorporated into the Omani system since 1970, thus, much of that work has ceased. It is a great pity the great blade makers of Sheffield are no longer in business as they still have a fine reputation here for working knives.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Billman]

There are a few knife makers still working in Sheffield, so the tradition continues - even at least one Little Meister still hand making knives. Sadly British draconian knife laws have reduced sales in the UK - as a boy I (and almost every boy in my class at school) carried a penknife - today very few adults carry a knife (unlike in France and Italy) - those that do have to justify their reason if stopped by the police. The idea is to reduce knife crime - sadly those who carry knives for illegal purposes do not take heed of the law....

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Billman

There are a few knife makers still working in Sheffield, so the tradition continues - even at least one Little Meister still hand making knives. Sadly British draconian knife laws have reduced sales in the UK - as a boy I (and almost every boy in my class at school) carried a penknife - today very few adults carry a knife (unlike in France and Italy) - those that do have to justify their reason if stopped by the police. The idea is to reduce knife crime - sadly those who carry knives for illegal purposes do not take heed of the law....

you beat me to it. i do carry a sub-three inch non locking folder which is UK legal to carry w/o a reason. even tho it is legal, i have to be careful where and why i use it. if i 'scare' someone a cop could construe that as an offensive act and i'd be done for carrying an offensive weapon, even tho the knife itself is 'legal'.

i visited sheffield a few years ago, couldn't find any decent knives. only one store actually sold non cutlery style knives, most were imports and of poor quality. found one traditional maker who worked at a forge in the knife making museum. his order book was backed up for years and he was rather expensive. there was another one there as well, but he was closed at the time. many old factories were shut down & i would bet have since been razed.

john nowill still has a factory making knives, some of low quality and price, but serviceable. his stag handled seaman's knife is decent and inexpensive. his high end bowies ain't too bad. 'sheffield knives' makes some, tho i've never desired any of theirs. too many are 'stainless', i prefer high carbon steel or non-stainless tool steel alloys.

i took a trip to see wilkinson sword's HQ & sword factory a while back. unbeknown to me, they had shut up shop the week before & were closed forever. they still had a specimen of their limited edition gladius in the window when i peered in. now the 'wilkinson sword' name is only on razor blades.

sad.

i wonder who makes the miltary's dress swords. probably made in china.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kronckew

you beat me to it. i do carry a sub-three inch non locking folder which is UK legal to carry w/o a reason. even tho it is legal, i have to be careful where and why i use it. if i 'scare' someone a cop could construe that as an offensive act and i'd be done for carrying an offensive weapon, even tho the knife itself is 'legal'.

i visited sheffield a few years ago, couldn't find any decent knives. only one store actually sold non cutlery style knives, most were imports and of poor quality. found one traditional maker who worked at a forge in the knife making museum. his order book was backed up for years and he was rather expensive. there was another one there as well, but he was closed at the time. many old factories were shut down & i would bet have since been razed.

john nowill still has a factory making knives, some of low quality and price, but serviceable. his stag handled seaman's knife is decent and inexpensive. his high end bowies ain't too bad. 'sheffield knives' makes some, tho i've never desired any of theirs. too many are 'stainless', i prefer high carbon steel or non-stainless tool steel alloys.

i took a trip to see wilkinson sword's HQ & sword factory a while back. unbeknown to me, they had shut up shop the week before & were closed forever. they still had a specimen of their limited edition gladius in the window when i peered in. now the 'wilkinson sword' name is only on razor blades.

sad.

i wonder who makes the miltary's dress swords. probably made in china.

Salaams kronckew... Disposal of the sword business;

The Acton sword factory closed, and sword production ceased on 15 September 2005. Most of the Wilkinson Sword machinery, tools and equipment was purchased by the oldest producing sword factory in the world, WKC (Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Cie) of Solingen, Germany. Amongst these items were most of the current British MOD Pattern Sword and Scabbard tools as well as the original blade roll forge of Wilkinson. These are currently used to produce ceremonial swords and scabbards for military and police forces worldwide.

However !!!!

Robert Pooley purchased sword drawings and forging machinery from Wilkinson Sword and sent them to India. He then set up his own company Pooley Sword which finishes and engraves swords forged in India.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[kronckew]

shukran, ibrahim.

i see pooley has a UK website. no prices listed - i generally work on the principle that if they do not list a price, i cannot afford it.

...maybe i amend that if i'm haggling in a souk

edited: wkc also has a site - with prices. still can't afford them

especially as they all seem to be stainless. i hate stainless swords.

stems from a mis-spent youth. as a cadet 1st classman, i was a asst. platoon leader for our cadet regiment (i went to a military university). i carried an issue stainless naval pattern officers sword. they fitted us individually, the length of the sword was chosen so that you did not hit the ground with the point when flourishing it in parades.

i found out why.

one of the other platoon leaders was running late one weekend for the muster before our weekly pass in review parade for the admiral and hordes of the public, including family & girlfriends, and he borrowed a sword from one of the other cadets who was ill and not attending, but was closer to the parade ground (i think he'd left his somewhere off the campus & couldn't immediately find it). the sick loaner was a good 6 in. taller than the borrower.

anyhow during the parade, as we passed the admiral & did a sword salute, his blade tip, longer than he was used to, hit the ground.

we heard a 'tink' (so did the admiral) and half the blade hit the ground in front of him. he completed the parade with a short sword, red with embarrassment and the laughter of many.

edited again:

i did order a USCG 'sword' letter opener from WKC tonight (my family has/had my full sized sword i bought when i was commissioned back in the USA) i'll hang it on a hook under my commission for remembrance.