Keris Buda

A. G. Maisey · 2nd September 2013, 06:52 AM

Maybe the easiest way to gain an understanding of what happens when we fold and weld material is to duplicate the process with plasticine. I seem to recall Pauzan used this when he was working out how to weld ron duru.

I can understand what you mean when you say that different material is used for the core than for the blade, we can expect this, but what causes you to think that the core has been put into the blade in a manner that varies from the common side to side sandwich?

Re mendak, is that mendak ferric material? It looks like brass in the photo. Or maybe you have replaced the original ferric one with a brass one?

rasjid · 2nd September 2013, 03:17 PM

Just my imagination, if the middle is the core ( different colour from other blade material surrounding it) the maker could sandwhich the core and Turn 45 degree before hammering so that the core in the middle. Straight through the peksi... and again I could be wrong

There is was old mendak attached when I received it but unusable anymore. I replace it with cirebonan handle and brass mendak as personal preference.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd September 2013, 10:24 PM

When we put the core in, its just like making a sandwich, bottom layer of pamor, thin layer of steel, top layer of pamor. Then it gets welded in the forge. So, under normal circumstances and in this sort of keris, we could expect to see the core in the pesi running side to side , the same orientation as in the blade.

The way I understand what you told us, Rasjid, is that the line of the core does not continue through the pesi in the same orientation as it is in the blade, but rather it has been turned 45 degrees so that it now runs perpendicular to the blade surface.

If this is so, its a bit hard to understand why this would be done. In any case, its unusual. Can you see where the orientation of the core occurred? Can you see the core running through the top of the gonjo? Under microscopic examination, can you see any obvious joins in the blade or pesi?

I wonder if it is the result of a miscalculation in manufacture, and the smith made a virtue of necessity.

I cannot recall seeing a blade like this one. It appears to be Jawa, but an old Jawa blade with a kebo gandhik, KB tang, iron mendak---or probably more correctly metuk --- plus gonjo iras. Very peculiar. I think it is possible that at the time it was made the smith might have been struggling with the technique and this led to production of a rather unique blade.

I'd like to have a close look at this blade some day.

EDIT

I've just had another look at this blade pic. I can clearly see the core, or perhaps more correctly the cutting edge on the front of the blade,I cannot see an edge at the back of the blade, there may have been one that has been lost to erosion. I can also see a dark line running down the middle of the blade face. Is this maybe what you can see in the pesi? Not the core, but an attempt at a pamor pattern, or an accident in mixture of material?

rasjid · 3rd September 2013, 02:22 AM

The blade is in Jakarta, you are always welcome to view it and in case you need to update yourself about Jakarta also.

I looked again the blade, may be you are right. Under proper sun light, the core is sandwich as normal, the middle line maybe an attempt as pamor or different type of material used (like sodo saler). The left darker colour is the core but none on the other side. The blade is welded tight and no visible joints.
I dont think any pamor here, just different material is being used and welded with the core.

thanks

A. G. Maisey · 3rd September 2013, 09:02 AM

Yes, possibly Rasjid, but if this dark line also appears on the other side, I'd be inclined to think it might have been an attempt at a defined motif. Not all keris are masterpieces and not all makers were masters; a lot of the rank and file very obviously struggled with what they were trying to do.

Yes. Well. Jakarta. You're right I should visit. Haven't been there since 1978. But I doubt that I have the strength to endure Jakarta. First few times I went there it was fun, I quite enjoyed it, that was more than 40 years ago. Been a lot of changes both to Jakarta and me since then.

2nd September 2013, 06:52 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Maybe the easiest way to gain an understanding of what happens when we fold and weld material is to duplicate the process with plasticine. I seem to recall Pauzan used this when he was working out how to weld ron duru. I can understand what you mean when you say that different material is used for the core than for the blade, we can expect this, but what causes you to think that the core has been put into the blade in a manner that varies from the common side to side sandwich? Re mendak, is that mendak ferric material? It looks like brass in the photo. Or maybe you have replaced the original ferric one with a brass one?

2nd September 2013, 03:17 PM	#2
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	Just my imagination, if the middle is the core ( different colour from other blade material surrounding it) the maker could sandwhich the core and Turn 45 degree before hammering so that the core in the middle. Straight through the peksi... and again I could be wrong There is was old mendak attached when I received it but unusable anymore. I replace it with cirebonan handle and brass mendak as personal preference.

2nd September 2013, 10:24 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	When we put the core in, its just like making a sandwich, bottom layer of pamor, thin layer of steel, top layer of pamor. Then it gets welded in the forge. So, under normal circumstances and in this sort of keris, we could expect to see the core in the pesi running side to side , the same orientation as in the blade. The way I understand what you told us, Rasjid, is that the line of the core does not continue through the pesi in the same orientation as it is in the blade, but rather it has been turned 45 degrees so that it now runs perpendicular to the blade surface. If this is so, its a bit hard to understand why this would be done. In any case, its unusual. Can you see where the orientation of the core occurred? Can you see the core running through the top of the gonjo? Under microscopic examination, can you see any obvious joins in the blade or pesi? I wonder if it is the result of a miscalculation in manufacture, and the smith made a virtue of necessity. I cannot recall seeing a blade like this one. It appears to be Jawa, but an old Jawa blade with a kebo gandhik, KB tang, iron mendak---or probably more correctly metuk --- plus gonjo iras. Very peculiar. I think it is possible that at the time it was made the smith might have been struggling with the technique and this led to production of a rather unique blade. I'd like to have a close look at this blade some day. EDIT I've just had another look at this blade pic. I can clearly see the core, or perhaps more correctly the cutting edge on the front of the blade,I cannot see an edge at the back of the blade, there may have been one that has been lost to erosion. I can also see a dark line running down the middle of the blade face. Is this maybe what you can see in the pesi? Not the core, but an attempt at a pamor pattern, or an accident in mixture of material?

3rd September 2013, 02:22 AM	#4
rasjid Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Jakarta - Indonesia Posts: 114	The blade is in Jakarta, you are always welcome to view it and in case you need to update yourself about Jakarta also. I looked again the blade, may be you are right. Under proper sun light, the core is sandwich as normal, the middle line maybe an attempt as pamor or different type of material used (like sodo saler). The left darker colour is the core but none on the other side. The blade is welded tight and no visible joints. I dont think any pamor here, just different material is being used and welded with the core. thanks

3rd September 2013, 09:02 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yes, possibly Rasjid, but if this dark line also appears on the other side, I'd be inclined to think it might have been an attempt at a defined motif. Not all keris are masterpieces and not all makers were masters; a lot of the rank and file very obviously struggled with what they were trying to do. Yes. Well. Jakarta. You're right I should visit. Haven't been there since 1978. But I doubt that I have the strength to endure Jakarta. First few times I went there it was fun, I quite enjoyed it, that was more than 40 years ago. Been a lot of changes both to Jakarta and me since then.