Indonesian swords

Gavin Nugent · 12th August 2013, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Marcus,

please post the keris in the other forum and show us from both pieces more pictures, special from the blades. The keris don't look pure bugis to my eyes but more in direction Peninsula or Sumatra but need other pictures.

The pedang seems to be a classic pedang lurus from Java and seems to be in very complete condition, many I have seen have had demaged scabbards since the silver cover is most of the time thin. Also here, please show the blade.

Regards,

Detlef

I support Detlef's request and notes.

Please show as requested in the required forum as the Keris looks to be Central Western Sumatra but more exacting detail will be discussed in the Keris forum.

The Pedang Lurus come in all qualities over a long period of time, I would be interested in viewing the rest of it here too.

Gavin

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 03:42 AM

As requested.

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 03:44 AM

I look forward to comments about the ethnicity and social status of the person who might have first owned this sword.
Marcus

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 03:48 AM

Yes, a nice complete pedang lurus from Java and better as my own example.

How long is it, blade and complete? The ethnicity is Javanese. Status I can't answer, maybe Alan know more.

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2013, 07:53 AM

In Jawa, pedang were not status indicators, as keris could often be, and in olden times, were.

However, one would not expect to see a common man with a silver mounted pedang, nor would one expect to see a ruler with a silver mounted pedang. The ruler would very probably opt for gold, the common man for wood, if he even owned a pedang. Mostly common soldiers were armed with spears, and often those spears would not even have iron tips but were simply sharpened and hardened bamboo; this was particularly the case where levies were involved.

This is a pedang of pretty ordinary quality, not outstanding in any way, but it is a good, solid, functional piece in dress that could be used in a formal setting. I would expect to see such a pedang as the property of a middle ranking noble, not a man of exalted status, and not a common soldier.

Marcus · 12th August 2013, 01:38 PM

Would the Keris also be found in Java. If so, were they more or less common than a pedang like this?

Sajen · 12th August 2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Would the Keris also be found in Java. If so, were they more or less common than a pedang like this?

Hello Marcus,

the keris is very common in old times in Java and by official events still today. But your keris isn't from Java, keris from Java are different. Read in keris warung kopi, you will find many examples from Java. The keris was more common than the pedang IMHO.

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2013, 11:03 PM

Marcus, the keris originated in Jawa more than 1000 years ago.

It was and is central to Javanese indigenous belief.

It spread from Jawa to other parts of Maritime South East Asia, but it spread in the absence of its socio-religious context. Even in Jawa itself the understanding of the keris underwent changes after the fall of the Hindu-Javanese kingdom of Majapahit.

For the last 200 years the keris in Jawa has been a requisite part of formal dress.

Don't get hooked on keris. Too much knowledge can destroy the naïve joy of simple weapon collecting.

12th August 2013, 03:42 AM	#2
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	more photos As requested. Attached Images

12th August 2013, 03:44 AM	#3
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	One more I look forward to comments about the ethnicity and social status of the person who might have first owned this sword. Marcus Attached Images

12th August 2013, 01:38 PM	#6
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Java Would the Keris also be found in Java. If so, were they more or less common than a pedang like this?

12th August 2013, 03:48 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Yes, a nice complete pedang lurus from Java and better as my own example. How long is it, blade and complete? The ethnicity is Javanese. Status I can't answer, maybe Alan know more.

12th August 2013, 07:53 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	In Jawa, pedang were not status indicators, as keris could often be, and in olden times, were. However, one would not expect to see a common man with a silver mounted pedang, nor would one expect to see a ruler with a silver mounted pedang. The ruler would very probably opt for gold, the common man for wood, if he even owned a pedang. Mostly common soldiers were armed with spears, and often those spears would not even have iron tips but were simply sharpened and hardened bamboo; this was particularly the case where levies were involved. This is a pedang of pretty ordinary quality, not outstanding in any way, but it is a good, solid, functional piece in dress that could be used in a formal setting. I would expect to see such a pedang as the property of a middle ranking noble, not a man of exalted status, and not a common soldier.

12th August 2013, 11:03 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Marcus, the keris originated in Jawa more than 1000 years ago. It was and is central to Javanese indigenous belief. It spread from Jawa to other parts of Maritime South East Asia, but it spread in the absence of its socio-religious context. Even in Jawa itself the understanding of the keris underwent changes after the fall of the Hindu-Javanese kingdom of Majapahit. For the last 200 years the keris in Jawa has been a requisite part of formal dress. Don't get hooked on keris. Too much knowledge can destroy the naïve joy of simple weapon collecting.