Smallsword hilted Spadroon

Hotspur · 20th July 2013, 07:45 AM

The 1796 infantry sword was as described, without donkey hoofs but was a prescribed field service form (not a dress sword).

The last sword entry by Norman has a boat shell type guard, which would later be used in the form of the 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword . The 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword then also having a doubled edge blade with a short fuller, a nod to the older palasch blades.

So, right there, kidney vs boat as a difference but a beautiful and notable sword.

Cheers

GC

Jim McDougall · 21st July 2013, 03:24 AM

The mysteries of Solingen are indeed a lifes work! and though I feel like I have learned a great deal, it still doesnt scratch the surface.
Actually John Justus Runkel was actually a German dealer based in London on Holborn street, and imported blades into England to sell to other cutlers (1780-1808). It is believed his blades came primarily from one particular family in Solingen, and this was all during the notorious 'sword scandals' contesting German vs. English blades.

While the magical/talismanic motif does resemble some of the themes on a number of his blades, it seems typically he would inscribe his name 'J J Runkel' on the back of the blade. This is the somewhat standard location for makers names stamped in block letters in that period.

It would appear to me that the inscribed motif on this blade is quite similar to blades (also of Solingen make) done in the Cassaignard fashion, a Nantes France cutler (1774-1812), whose engraver used these magical style sigils and devices along with panoplies and astral symbols. It seems often these were well aligned with Masonic and fraternal orders which were of course quite popular with the gentry and nobility of these times. Swords were very much status oriented and fashion well connected between France and England through these fraternal channels.

As has been noted, the 'squiggle' could very well have a 'signature' type demeanor as it is placed in the location on blade back where names of makers were typically placed. It may also be perceived as a simple flourish to complete the overall decoration on these neoclassical themed weapons, however it would be interesting to learn more on this apparantly deliberately placed device, especially if it does occur with names.

This is a fascinating anomaly, a traditional smallsword hilt in style at least with vestigial pas d'ane and a distinctly fighting type blade of heavier 'spadroon' type of 1780s, and of course quite possibly earlier as suggested. Often when sword types were introduced in regulations the form had already been in use for some time.
To add to the interest is the blade decoration , including the diagonal strapwork panel at forte often seen on the Caissagnard blades. It should be noted perhaps that the French eventually copied the English 1780 type spadroon swords with urn type pommels and often five ball hilts, terming them l'Anglaise (of the English style).

Norman McCormick · 22nd July 2013, 09:54 PM

Thanks guys, really appreciate the input.

Norman McCormick · 22nd July 2013, 11:04 PM

Flag of the Seven United Netherlands 1581-1795.

Hotspur · 23rd July 2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Flag of the Seven United Netherlands 1581-1795.

Well, ha

There you go

GC

Dmitry · 23rd July 2013, 04:53 PM

Hi, this doesn't look like a sword knot, but I have another idea. How wide and how long is this fabric?

Norman McCormick · 23rd July 2013, 06:59 PM

Hi Dmitry,
The material is 35 1/2 inches long and 2 1/2 inches wide. The ends are quite frayed and I couldn't guarantee that there hasn't been loss to the length. The colours on close inspection do look like orange, white and blue rather than what I assumed at first i.e faded red with white and blue but as I am not at all familiar with dyes, silk and the effect of 200yrs plus exposure I cant be sure. I did photograph the silk at the point where it was knotted/folded where the colours were not totally exposed to daylight but on the other hand time may be an issue with some dyestuffs as well as exposure to light. Hope this is of help.
My Regards,
Norman.

21st July 2013, 03:24 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	The mysteries of Solingen are indeed a lifes work! and though I feel like I have learned a great deal, it still doesnt scratch the surface. Actually John Justus Runkel was actually a German dealer based in London on Holborn street, and imported blades into England to sell to other cutlers (1780-1808). It is believed his blades came primarily from one particular family in Solingen, and this was all during the notorious 'sword scandals' contesting German vs. English blades. While the magical/talismanic motif does resemble some of the themes on a number of his blades, it seems typically he would inscribe his name 'J J Runkel' on the back of the blade. This is the somewhat standard location for makers names stamped in block letters in that period. It would appear to me that the inscribed motif on this blade is quite similar to blades (also of Solingen make) done in the Cassaignard fashion, a Nantes France cutler (1774-1812), whose engraver used these magical style sigils and devices along with panoplies and astral symbols. It seems often these were well aligned with Masonic and fraternal orders which were of course quite popular with the gentry and nobility of these times. Swords were very much status oriented and fashion well connected between France and England through these fraternal channels. As has been noted, the 'squiggle' could very well have a 'signature' type demeanor as it is placed in the location on blade back where names of makers were typically placed. It may also be perceived as a simple flourish to complete the overall decoration on these neoclassical themed weapons, however it would be interesting to learn more on this apparantly deliberately placed device, especially if it does occur with names. This is a fascinating anomaly, a traditional smallsword hilt in style at least with vestigial pas d'ane and a distinctly fighting type blade of heavier 'spadroon' type of 1780s, and of course quite possibly earlier as suggested. Often when sword types were introduced in regulations the form had already been in use for some time. To add to the interest is the blade decoration , including the diagonal strapwork panel at forte often seen on the Caissagnard blades. It should be noted perhaps that the French eventually copied the English 1780 type spadroon swords with urn type pommels and often five ball hilts, terming them l'Anglaise (of the English style). Last edited by Jim McDougall; 21st July 2013 at 05:17 AM.

22nd July 2013, 11:04 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Flag of the Seven United Netherlands 1581-1795. Attached Images

20th July 2013, 07:45 AM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	The 1796 infantry sword was as described, without donkey hoofs but was a prescribed field service form (not a dress sword). The last sword entry by Norman has a boat shell type guard, which would later be used in the form of the 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword . The 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword then also having a doubled edge blade with a short fuller, a nod to the older palasch blades. So, right there, kidney vs boat as a difference but a beautiful and notable sword. Cheers GC

22nd July 2013, 09:54 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Thanks guys, really appreciate the input.

23rd July 2013, 04:53 PM	#6
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Hi, this doesn't look like a sword knot, but I have another idea. How wide and how long is this fabric?

23rd July 2013, 06:59 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Hi Dmitry, The material is 35 1/2 inches long and 2 1/2 inches wide. The ends are quite frayed and I couldn't guarantee that there hasn't been loss to the length. The colours on close inspection do look like orange, white and blue rather than what I assumed at first i.e faded red with white and blue but as I am not at all familiar with dyes, silk and the effect of 200yrs plus exposure I cant be sure. I did photograph the silk at the point where it was knotted/folded where the colours were not totally exposed to daylight but on the other hand time may be an issue with some dyestuffs as well as exposure to light. Hope this is of help. My Regards, Norman.