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Old 19th July 2013, 12:46 PM   #1
Norman McCormick
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Hi,
Some striking similarities in hilt decor and construction.
Regards,
Norman.
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Old 19th July 2013, 04:54 PM   #2
fernando
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Yes indeed
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Old 19th July 2013, 05:25 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
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Wow! breathtaking barrage of response here in less than an hour!!! I likes that
In looking at this I began to suspect this might be Dutch, probably much in line with the notes by Kisak reflecting those characteristics.

The 'spadroon' blade was becoming popular around 1780s while by 1790s the traditional smallsword was waning, despite military traditions carrying the theme forward with its officers. The British introduced the hilt styles familar on the spadroon models of c.1780, and there are silver hilt types with similar fluting on tall pommels and the four slot guard with fouled anchor from 1780s (one has hallmark of 1787). Perhaps the naval association might comply with the compelling comparison shown in the Morris sword. The style of decoration in hilt is very similar.

It is interesting that the smallsword style hilt was used in the British M1796 infantry officers dress sword which was used until 1822. These did not follow the true smallsword hilt however in that they did not have the pas d'ane rings. It does seem that the officers truly disdained this sword as was described in accounts of Peninsular campaigns. It does seem that the blades were single edged like this and indeed were imported by Runkel, but most of these blades were so marked.

The magic/talismanic motif is indeed Solingen oriented, and as mentioned often seen on officers blades brought into England by J J Runkel in the late 18th c. into 19th. He was actually an importer working as an agent in London for Solingen if I am not mistaken.
The squiggle on the spine is indeed a Solingen mark and seems to have been discussed by Glen some time ago. I am inclined to agree with him that it is either some sort of trademark or signature symbolic pertaining to either guild or contractual circumstances.

Glen, I have Wagner and will check further. I am also looking through Dean and Aylward.

Norman, you are truly a discerning collector, and the items you come up with certainly tantalize the researcher in all of us! Fantastic teamwork here everybody, and definitely fun to see results like this.
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Old 19th July 2013, 07:28 PM   #4
Norman McCormick
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Thanks Guys
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Old 20th July 2013, 07:45 AM   #5
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The 1796 infantry sword was as described, without donkey hoofs but was a prescribed field service form (not a dress sword).

The last sword entry by Norman has a boat shell type guard, which would later be used in the form of the 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword . The 1796 heavy cavalry dress sword then also having a doubled edge blade with a short fuller, a nod to the older palasch blades.

So, right there, kidney vs boat as a difference but a beautiful and notable sword.

Cheers

GC
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Old 21st July 2013, 03:24 AM   #6
Jim McDougall
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The mysteries of Solingen are indeed a lifes work! and though I feel like I have learned a great deal, it still doesnt scratch the surface.
Actually John Justus Runkel was actually a German dealer based in London on Holborn street, and imported blades into England to sell to other cutlers (1780-1808). It is believed his blades came primarily from one particular family in Solingen, and this was all during the notorious 'sword scandals' contesting German vs. English blades.

While the magical/talismanic motif does resemble some of the themes on a number of his blades, it seems typically he would inscribe his name 'J J Runkel' on the back of the blade. This is the somewhat standard location for makers names stamped in block letters in that period.

It would appear to me that the inscribed motif on this blade is quite similar to blades (also of Solingen make) done in the Cassaignard fashion, a Nantes France cutler (1774-1812), whose engraver used these magical style sigils and devices along with panoplies and astral symbols. It seems often these were well aligned with Masonic and fraternal orders which were of course quite popular with the gentry and nobility of these times. Swords were very much status oriented and fashion well connected between France and England through these fraternal channels.

As has been noted, the 'squiggle' could very well have a 'signature' type demeanor as it is placed in the location on blade back where names of makers were typically placed. It may also be perceived as a simple flourish to complete the overall decoration on these neoclassical themed weapons, however it would be interesting to learn more on this apparantly deliberately placed device, especially if it does occur with names.

This is a fascinating anomaly, a traditional smallsword hilt in style at least with vestigial pas d'ane and a distinctly fighting type blade of heavier 'spadroon' type of 1780s, and of course quite possibly earlier as suggested. Often when sword types were introduced in regulations the form had already been in use for some time.
To add to the interest is the blade decoration , including the diagonal strapwork panel at forte often seen on the Caissagnard blades. It should be noted perhaps that the French eventually copied the English 1780 type spadroon swords with urn type pommels and often five ball hilts, terming them l'Anglaise (of the English style).

Last edited by Jim McDougall; 21st July 2013 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 22nd July 2013, 09:54 PM   #7
Norman McCormick
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Thanks guys, really appreciate the input.
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