Mandau Sanaman Mantikei mix with Djangkarang

[Cakszz]

why my reply is not appear? is that taking long time or need admin approval?

[VVV]

Welcome to the forum Cakszz,

I have never seen the raw mantikei material before, thanks for sharing.
Is daun sirih (betel leaf) also used during the forging process of the mandau mantikei?

Michael

[David]

Welcome to the forum Cakszz. This is all very interesting, but would you be able to explain why someone would want to bend a blade like this in the first place? I don't see the purpose of the exercise as it would seem to render the blade useless.

[Cakszz]

Originally Posted by David

Welcome to the forum Cakszz. This is all very interesting, but would you be able to explain why someone would want to bend a blade like this in the first place? I don't see the purpose of the exercise as it would seem to render the blade useless.

Its the typical of mantikei, bentable yet it solid, strong and sharp.. But this kind of weapon is not good to cut soft material such banana trees it only good to cut hard material such bones or nails that why this typical mandau is onky use for war or headhunting...

For working we call it pisau ambang.. Looks like mandau but its different.. From material, tatahan... So some people would be wrong to identify mandau or ambang...

[David]

Originally Posted by Cakszz

Its the typical of mantikei, bentable yet it solid, strong and sharp.. But this kind of weapon is not good to cut soft material such banana trees it only good to cut hard material such bones or nails that why this typical mandau is onky use for war or headhunting...

For working we call it pisau ambang.. Looks like mandau but its different.. From material, tatahan... So some people would be wrong to identify mandau or ambang...

Sorry to be insistent, but you didn't really answer my question. WHY would you want to rub betel leaves on the blade and bend it like this? What purpose could that serve even if you can bend it back?
You have also written that this type of weapon is not good for cutting soft materials, but is used for headhunting and because it cuts bone well. But there is quite a bit of soft flesh before you get to the bone that the blade must cut through first so this does not really make sense to me.
You have mentioned that the pisau ambang looks like a mandau, but it is different. Could you explain how it is different so that we would be able to recognize those differences. Thanks much!

[ariel]

From my high school chemistry class ( long ago, alas!), the only metal capable of floating on water is lithium. And it oxidized immediately.
Sodium and potassium in metallic form also are slightly lighter than water, but totally unsuitable for forming blades or other objects. .

Also, here is one of the processes suitable to obtain metallic lithium.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2062993_obtain-lithium.html

Doubt very much that Dyaks possessed enough knowledge :-)

Thus, the "floating mandau" story sounds like a fairy tale to me.

[Battara]

This may be true Ariel, it don't forget that a lot of stories and traditions grow around a lot of our weaponry.

Let's see what his are from his background.

[Cakszz]

Originally Posted by ariel

From my high school chemistry class ( long ago, alas!), the only metal capable of floating on water is lithium. And it oxidized immediately.
Sodium and potassium in metallic form also are slightly lighter than water, but totally unsuitable for forming blades or other objects. .

Also, here is one of the processes suitable to obtain metallic lithium.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2062993_obtain-lithium.html

Doubt very much that Dyaks possessed enough knowledge :-)

Thus, the "floating mandau" story sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Honestly I dont have this mandau.. because typically it will be kept in family circle.. I know one that has.. I really want to buy it... but his father still dont want to release it..

I dont know this material.. but my grandfather said it yellowiss color.. and it will floating on water.. our governor has it anjd still kept in capitol house of central borneo.. I havent found any literature said about this mandau.. and also because many of those items have been destroy or burn in the name of religion.. so nowadays only veryy..veryyy few people has it..

[Cakszz]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry to be insistent, but you didn't really answer my question. WHY would you want to rub betel leaves on the blade and bend it like this? What purpose could that serve even if you can bend it back?
You have also written that this type of weapon is not good for cutting soft materials, but is used for headhunting and because it cuts bone well. But there is quite a bit of soft flesh before you get to the bone that the blade must cut through first so this does not really make sense to me.
You have mentioned that the pisau ambang looks like a mandau, but it is different. Could you explain how it is different so that we would be able to recognize those differences. Thanks much!

Oke actually mantikei property is bentable.. betel just to make it more flexible.. it might be chemical reaction caused by betel sap to this metal.. I dont know..
I dont know very sure how it was used in "asang kayau era" - headhunting era.. I just realize my grandfather own one of authentic mantikei.. but now its with my brother in Kalimantan.. I havent seen it.. or try to bent it.. I need to ask my grandfather to gather all information.. as his grandfather was the last headhunters.. we were stop head hunting after Tombang Anoi declartaion in year 1893.. a meeting of all Dayak tribes in Tumbang Anoi, central kalimantan.. and issued 96 laws to stop beheadings, slavery etc...

Pisau ambang is normaly made frol low quality of metal.. thats why some mandau made form gears ect.. because its called ambang.. but original mandau is made from high quality "batu gunung" as my picture previously.. and real mandau need rituals.. thats why takes months to make a mandau.. and the differents also on its "tatahan" - motives on blade

[David]

Originally Posted by Cakszz

I need to ask my grandfather to gather all information.. as his grandfather was the last headhunters.. we were stop head hunting after Tombang Anoi declartaion in year 1893.. a meeting of all Dayak tribes in Tumbang Anoi, central kalimantan.. and issued 96 laws to stop beheadings, slavery etc...

Cakszz, please forgive me for assuming to inform you about your own people, but there have been many instances of headhunting far into the 20th century. In fact heads were taken in disputes with Madurese migrants to Borneo at least as late as 2001.
In regards to my previous questions perhaps we are having a language problem. I am not questioning whether this bendable metal is a possibility. My question is WHY would you want to create a blade that would bend like this. It just seems impractical and i don't understand what purpose it serves to create such a blade.

[Cakszz]

Originally Posted by VVV

Welcome to the forum Cakszz,

I have never seen the raw mantikei material before, thanks for sharing.
Is daun sirih (betel leaf) also used during the forging process of the mandau mantikei?

Michael

Its not used during the forging.. I dont know why if mandau mantikei is rubbed by betel leaf the metal will be soft and can be bent but can be straighten again... Yet it still strong and sharp to cut a nail for example

[kai]

Originally Posted by Cakszz

why my reply is not appear? is that taking long time or need admin approval?

Thanks for all your answers!

Yes, posts of new members need moderators' approval. This is a bit annoying since the discussion moves on while your replies only show up later and may even get overlooked if a thread is really busy. Please bear with us though since this also helps to protect the forum. After a while you'll get freed out off this quarantine mode - maybe contact a mod when you believe you've proven yourself...

Regards,
Kai