Balinese/Lombok pedang

[David]

Well, this is just my opinion, but i would also think that these inscriptions are relative recent to the blade. The blade itself does seem to be old as does the rest of the ensemble. I do like those fullers. There has been a lot of talk on this thread about the patina. Obviously there is some patina here, but there is also a lot of dirt. Dirt is not patina. Sliver can be cleaned up without removing patina. Wood and horn can be revitalized without removing patina.
I have never seen a blade from this areas with this extent of writing on the blade that wasn't either obviously recent or at least suspicious. I am sorry that i have no examples to show as this is a bit outside my collection area. Perhaps since this is your collection area you could show us some provenanced examples that you know of to have have true age to their extensive inlay work. It also seems odd that given the extensive wear on this blade that the inlay appears so pristine. You would think that it would be missing some areas of inlay as you see in the last example that Kai has posted if there was real age to it.
So, is ANYONE able to translate the writing?

[kai]

Hello David,

It also seems odd that given the extensive wear on this blade that the inlay appears so pristine. You would think that it would be missing some areas of inlay as you see in the last example that Kai has posted if there was real age to it.

Maurice has a point though: it could also be argued the other way around (good quality work won't fail as easily). I guess we need additional approaches to get a better grip on these inlays.

So, is ANYONE able to translate the writing?

I've PMed Dom and hope he and his better half will have a look...

Regards,
Kai

[VVV]

I am back home now for a day so here is the page that Alan referred to from Djelengga for everybody to read.

Based on my kindergarten level of Bahasa, he is writing that this is a traditional sword of Lombok and it is only used as weapon. That is the reason that some of them do not have pamor, but in the past they did. They are made locally by Lombok pande.

(Please correct my simple translation if I have misunderstood something)

Michael

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VVV

I am back home now for a day so here is the page that Alan referred to from Djelengga for everybody to read.

Based on my kindergarten level of Bahasa, he is writing that this is a traditional sword of Lombok and it is only used as weapon. That is the reason that some of them do not have pamor, but in the past they did. They are made locally by Lombok pande.

(Please correct my simple translation if I have misunderstood something)

Michael

I think we have had the same kindergarten education in Bahasa Indonesia, I understand it in a similar way.

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VVV

I am back home now for a day so here is the page that Alan referred to from Djelengga for everybody to read.

Based on my kindergarten level of Bahasa, he is writing that this is a traditional sword of Lombok and it is only used as weapon. That is the reason that some of them do not have pamor, but in the past they did. They are made locally by Lombok pande.

(Please correct my simple translation if I have misunderstood something)

Michael

Thanks for posting the image of concerning Djelengga page!
Looks like a must have article to me...

Maurice

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Thanks for posting the image of concerning Djelengga page!
Looks like a must have article to me...

Maurice

If you want I can copy some pages for you and send it to you.

Regards,

Detlef

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by David

Well, this is just my opinion, but i would also think that these inscriptions are relative recent to the blade. The blade itself does seem to be old as does the rest of the ensemble. I do like those fullers. There has been a lot of talk on this thread about the patina. Obviously there is some patina here, but there is also a lot of dirt. Dirt is not patina. Sliver can be cleaned up without removing patina. Wood and horn can be revitalized without removing patina.
I have never seen a blade from this areas with this extent of writing on the blade that wasn't either obviously recent or at least suspicious. I am sorry that i have no examples to show as this is a bit outside my collection area. Perhaps since this is your collection area you could show us some provenanced examples that you know of to have have true age to their extensive inlay work. It also seems odd that given the extensive wear on this blade that the inlay appears so pristine. You would think that it would be missing some areas of inlay as you see in the last example that Kai has posted if there was real age to it.
So, is ANYONE able to translate the writing?

Hi David, ofcourse I also know the difference of dirt and patina.
What I'm trying to prevent is that this old piece will get the very shiny appearance which is seen on a lot of old pieces by overcleaning.
According this piece I really like the contrast! Very good patina on the handle, blade and scabbard, and the mint condition of the silver inlay.
If I will clean this piece too much, probably most people would say the whole pedang is a new one.

My collecting area is Borneo, as you all know by know. But besides that I still like to collect some "odd" and "rare" pieces too.

I agree that the silverwork inlay is very pristine according the patina. It could be that it's indeed done latter, or that it had been preserved very good somehow because of one reason or the other.
What I do know about the inlay, is that according mandaus you also see differences. Mandaus from the Mahakam area have much more quality inlay and almost never are missing inlay, also when they are very old.
Mandaus of the same age from the Baram area however, often misses a lot of dots. Reason??? (smaller dots?, less quality of the brass,silver?, less craftmanship?)

Waiting for a translation....