halberd chinese???

weapons 27 · 7th July 2013, 11:51 AM

hello my friends

can identify you this halberd, I think Chinese?It measures 66cm + 7cm that fits into the handle...the blade has a chisel, it is sharp on both sides,

VANDOO · 7th July 2013, 08:12 PM

I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE YOUR EXAMPLE BUT IT COULD HAVE EVOLVED FROM AN ANCIENT CHINESE FORM. THE OLD FORM BRONZE POLEARMS HAD THE BLADE MONUTED LIKE AN AX OR PICK FOR A DOWNWARD CHOPPING STRIKE. YOUR EXAMPLE HAS A LONG LANCE OR SPEAR BLADE AS THE MAIN WEAPON BUT HAS THE SIDE BLADE THAT COULD BE USED FOR THE DOWNWARD STRIKE.
1. AN EXAMPLE OF A SHANG DYNASTY BRONZE BLADE WITH ONLY THE DOWNWARD CHOPPING STRIKEING FUNCTION
2.AN EXAMPLE OF A CHINESE BRONZE POLEARM HEAD WITH SPEAR AND TWO SIDE BLADES FOR DOWNWARD, SIDE TO SIDE AND THRUSTING STRIKES. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS SECOND FORM IS A REAL HISTORICAL FORM OF ARTEFACT OR A FANTASY ITEM BUT IS THE CLOSEST I CAN COME TO YOUR EXAMPLE. A INTERESTING ITEM PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN PIN IT DOWN FOR YOU GOOD LUCK.

weapons 27 · 8th July 2013, 06:27 AM

thank vandoo

me too I have never seen this type of spear or halberd, I hope that someone can help me!

kronckew · 8th July 2013, 10:51 AM

the 2.75 inch tang seems rather short for a hewing weapon.

Gavin Nugent · 8th July 2013, 11:30 AM

I suspect more mainland SEA for the origians rather than China.

If China proper, I'd typically expect a socket fit.

Regards

Gavin

Timo Nieminen · 8th July 2013, 11:57 AM

Doesn't look Chinese to me. My first two guesses would be Thai and Indian. Followed by Philippines and Indonesia.

For precedents, rather than Chinese ge/ji, how about the Japanese hoko? (The more modern (i.e., Medieval and Edo) hoko, which is a spear with side hook/blade, rather than the ancient hoko, which was just an ordinary spear.) Some examples in Stone, and also in Knutsen (Japanese Polearms & Japanese Spears). AKA kata-kama-yari.

josh stout · 13th July 2013, 10:14 PM

To me it looks like it might almost be African. Either way, the tang has not been peened and there is no other method of attachment, so I would guess it is a ceremonial or tourist piece that was hammered into a pole without being further secured.
Josh

Gavin Nugent · 14th July 2013, 06:27 AM

An astute reader has pointed out to me that these are Vietnamese and are shown in the Hanoi museum.

Gavin

weapons 27 · 14th July 2013, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwordsAntiqueWeapons

An astute reader has pointed out to me that these are Vietnamese and are shown in the Hanoi museum.

Gavin

ok
thank gavin

josh stout · 31st July 2013, 08:54 PM

Gavin-

I believe your assessment but I find it confusing. I have a few Vietnamese pieces and they are rather more refined than the appearance on this one.

What do you think accounts for the crude look

Josh

Gavin Nugent · 1st August 2013, 10:20 AM

Hi Josh,

I have held and seen Vietnamese weapons of both very high and very poor quality, some items of the same type but at each end of the scale....I guess like everything, budget plays a part and does usage and region of manufacture.
Last year I viewed a collection of 7 yanyuedao from the region and was impressed with several highly details, fullered and well finished blades but others were capable but poorly finished.
After seeing these I feel the one presented in this link is also from the Vietnamese regions; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13064

I am sure the crude look accounts for a particular use but what the exact reasoning behind it is unknown to me but it does look very capable.

Gavin

7th July 2013, 11:51 AM	#1
weapons 27 Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 462	halberd chinese??? hello my friends can identify you this halberd, I think Chinese?It measures 66cm + 7cm that fits into the handle...the blade has a chisel, it is sharp on both sides, Attached Images

7th July 2013, 08:12 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE YOUR EXAMPLE BUT IT COULD HAVE EVOLVED FROM AN ANCIENT CHINESE FORM. THE OLD FORM BRONZE POLEARMS HAD THE BLADE MONUTED LIKE AN AX OR PICK FOR A DOWNWARD CHOPPING STRIKE. YOUR EXAMPLE HAS A LONG LANCE OR SPEAR BLADE AS THE MAIN WEAPON BUT HAS THE SIDE BLADE THAT COULD BE USED FOR THE DOWNWARD STRIKE. 1. AN EXAMPLE OF A SHANG DYNASTY BRONZE BLADE WITH ONLY THE DOWNWARD CHOPPING STRIKEING FUNCTION 2.AN EXAMPLE OF A CHINESE BRONZE POLEARM HEAD WITH SPEAR AND TWO SIDE BLADES FOR DOWNWARD, SIDE TO SIDE AND THRUSTING STRIKES. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS SECOND FORM IS A REAL HISTORICAL FORM OF ARTEFACT OR A FANTASY ITEM BUT IS THE CLOSEST I CAN COME TO YOUR EXAMPLE. A INTERESTING ITEM PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN PIN IT DOWN FOR YOU GOOD LUCK. Attached Images

8th July 2013, 06:27 AM	#3
weapons 27 Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 462	thank vandoo me too I have never seen this type of spear or halberd, I hope that someone can help me!

8th July 2013, 10:51 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	the 2.75 inch tang seems rather short for a hewing weapon.

8th July 2013, 11:30 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I suspect more mainland SEA for the origians rather than China. If China proper, I'd typically expect a socket fit. Regards Gavin

8th July 2013, 11:57 AM	#6
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Doesn't look Chinese to me. My first two guesses would be Thai and Indian. Followed by Philippines and Indonesia. For precedents, rather than Chinese ge/ji, how about the Japanese hoko? (The more modern (i.e., Medieval and Edo) hoko, which is a spear with side hook/blade, rather than the ancient hoko, which was just an ordinary spear.) Some examples in Stone, and also in Knutsen (Japanese Polearms & Japanese Spears). AKA kata-kama-yari.

13th July 2013, 10:14 PM	#7
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	To me it looks like it might almost be African. Either way, the tang has not been peened and there is no other method of attachment, so I would guess it is a ceremonial or tourist piece that was hammered into a pole without being further secured. Josh

14th July 2013, 06:27 AM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	An astute reader has pointed out to me that these are Vietnamese and are shown in the Hanoi museum. Gavin

31st July 2013, 08:54 PM	#10
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Gavin- I believe your assessment but I find it confusing. I have a few Vietnamese pieces and they are rather more refined than the appearance on this one. What do you think accounts for the crude look Josh

1st August 2013, 10:20 AM	#11
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Hi Josh, I have held and seen Vietnamese weapons of both very high and very poor quality, some items of the same type but at each end of the scale....I guess like everything, budget plays a part and does usage and region of manufacture. Last year I viewed a collection of 7 yanyuedao from the region and was impressed with several highly details, fullered and well finished blades but others were capable but poorly finished. After seeing these I feel the one presented in this link is also from the Vietnamese regions; http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13064 I am sure the crude look accounts for a particular use but what the exact reasoning behind it is unknown to me but it does look very capable. Gavin