On the Origins of the so-called Berber Sabres

[ariel]

I would venture to say that scabbards ( at least in this case) are more important determinants: blades traveled, scabbards were locally made and reflected local traditions.
My vote for North Africa.

[TVV]

The protrusion is indeed quite similar. There are other swords with scabbard protrusions, like for example Taiwanese aboriginal knives, but those scabbards tend to be wood, not leather. The tips on Ethiopian gurades bear the closest resemblance to the tips on Berber cutlasses.

I am not sure we can settle attributions by a matter of voting . Personally, I do not even know how to vote, as I can see the following possibilities:

1. A North African sword from areas close to the Spanish colonial holdings: North Morocco or Spanish Sahara (or Spanish Guinea?). The Spanish mottos can be explained as a result of no alternative sources of blades. We know that colonial powers tried to limit access to weapons for the local population in controlled and neighboring areas, or it may simply be a matter of restricting trade to merchants and goods from the respective Metropole. If that hypothesis is true, it may explain why we see almost exclusively Spanish blades on these swords, and mostly French blades on Mandingo sabers, in areas not too far.

2. A Caribbean weapon, which combines features from the diverse demographic composition of the Spanish colonies in Central America. By the 19th century, the population in the Spanish part of Hispaniola was of mixed Spanish, African and Amerindian descent. This may explain why the inscriptions refer to this particular island, while the decoration, which varies from simple geometric patterns to complex floral designs, is so eclectic.

3. A private purchase, non-standard issue weapon of Spanish officers and/or soldiers or sailors, who saw service in various parts of the Empire.

I am sure others may come up with further possibilities. In the end, I am afraid we will need photographic evidence to resolve the mystery conclusively, assuming of course that the use of these cutlasses does not predate photography.

Regards,
Teodor

[M ELEY]

Excellent points, Teodor.

I, myself, wasn't trying to imply that the Berber sabers were of Brazilian or Spanish origin. It was just a question of who influenced whom. I agree that the blades don't define the piece, as all areas discussed had trade blades present. I have no doubt the scabbard on the Berbers come from that region, or at least from the African northern provinces stretching to Morocco.

The question for me remains with the hilt. We see Brazilian and Cuban swords with these distinct and fascinating shapes that are so similar to the ninchas and saifs. All the pieces discussed frequently have the same types of inlay concentric circles and wavy lines. The time periods when we start seeing Berber sabers, Brazilian cutlass and the Cuban examples with the odd hilts all seem to be post 1800. I'm just still trying to make a connection, but perhaps am seeing more than is really there? The Brazilian cutlass hilt resemble a throw-back to the old Houndslow swords of the 17th century and look nothing like the hilts on other espada ancha. The mystery continues...

[TVV]

I was fortunate enough to visit Madrid this week and just yesterday took the train to Toledo, where the Spanish National Military History Museum is now located. Among all the exhibits there is a single sword of the type discussed in this thread, identified as originating from the Dominican Republic from the mid 19th century.

This is just the latest in a series of evidence, all pointing to the Dominican Republic. Museums are known to make mistakes, but my impression from the Museo del Ejercito was that the items there were for the most part very accurately researched and identified. There were displays to the wars fought in Morocco both in Toledo and in the Museo Naval in Madrid, and neither contained these machetes, but contained the typical Maghrebi saifs and muskets instead, along with koumayas and flyssas.

Personally, I am now of the opinion that these short sabres or machetes are entirely Dominican in origin, and any occurence in a North African context may have been purely incidental.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent Teodor, thank you!!!!
It is so great when these older threads are brought up with new data, and finally we can put this one to rest. I agree the Museo del Ejercito has as far as I have known always had well placed research, and it seems that the Caribbean attribution to these has also been consistant.

Sounds like a fantastic trip, and thank you again for sharing this.

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent Teodor, thank you!!!!
It is so great when these older threads are brought up with new data, and finally we can put this one to rest. I agree the Museo del Ejercito has as far as I have known always had well placed research, and it seems that the Caribbean attribution to these has also been consistant.

Sounds like a fantastic trip, and thank you again for sharing this.

All the best,
Jim

[archer]

I just noticed a mention on the third page of Faganarms,Inc. Spring 2014 catalog a Berber Back sword listed with the mention that the Kabyle Berbers fought for the French in Mexico in the 1850s. Perhaps, this is partially how and why they were connected. Steve

[Masich]

Here are two more examples of probable Spanish Colonial swords with notched horn grips and "shell" guards. One appears to be a horseman's saber with a curved, full length blade bearing the familiar "No me saques sin razon" inscription and panoply with floral flourish. The other has a heavier, shorter more cutlass-like blade.
The shell guards should, it seems to me, really be classified as a Peacock motif. The uniqueness of this design, when combined with the distinctive notched grip, may well be a clue to the origin of these swords.
Pierce Chamberlain told me the "No me saques..." sword pictured here is likely from Mexico but agreed that it exhibits Caribbean influence--but that, of course, covers a pretty broad area.The Brazilian connection (attributed to the peacock motif guard on the previously-posted sword seen on the gray background) is intriguing. Has anyone discovered more attributed specimens of this style? Are there any additional theories on the provenance of these enigmatic pieces?

Andy Masich