Yataghan research beginning

Battara · 3rd June 2013, 11:42 PM

How wonderful! I love the things. Would be happier if the one I had weren't stolen, but still love them.

Good luck to you. Your research and insights have been a great help to all of us collectors here at this little forum (and for all those who lurk).

TVV · 6th June 2013, 12:23 AM

I am afraid that I still take Turkish research, which is extremely biased, with a grain of salt. The blade form existed in the Balkans and the Mediterranean since antiquity, it does not exist in Central Asia at all, and yet we are to believe that 800 years ago a group of Turkmens moved to Asia Minor and "invented" the weapon. Not credible, sorry.

Teodor

ariel · 6th June 2013, 01:33 AM

Well, this is a very strong argument and I see a lot of truth in it.. Hopefully, this time around people might put aside their biases, listen to each other and , - jointly,- reach an historically- justifiable conclusion.

As an aside: quite a lot of Afghani Salawar Yataghans have incurved blades. Whether this is a long-standing local tradition or an externally- adopted feature ( there were quite a lot of Ottoman mercenaries in the area) is an interesting question. The same applies to Afghani/Bukharan eared handles.

As I said, we know precious little about the Turkmen/ Ottoman connections, and focussed research efforts are to be saluted.

Timo Nieminen · 6th June 2013, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

As an aside: quite a lot of Afghani Salawar Yataghans have incurved blades. Whether this is a long-standing local tradition or an externally- adopted feature ( there were quite a lot of Ottoman mercenaries in the area) is an interesting question. The same applies to Afghani/Bukharan eared handles.

There's an old history of forward-curved blades in India, well back into the 1st millenium IIRC from Rawson. Some say these are copied from forward-curved Greek swords, courtesy of the Alexandrian conquests, but they are quite plausibly locally developed. Then we have the Central Asian Greek kingdoms (e.g., Bactria), but there is the question of continuity. In any case, we have forward curved bronze knives through much of Central Asia.

So it's hard to find conclusive evidence about who influenced whom. (But, alas, easy to find information to support any single point of view.)

ariel · 6th June 2013, 11:56 AM

+100

Emanuel · 24th February 2016, 04:27 PM

Hi Dr. Ann,

Just wondering if there is an update to this work.

Best regards,
Emanuel

ariel · 24th February 2016, 05:14 PM

I went to the page and the last visit there was in July 2015....
I guess yataghans still defy scientific efforts and historical incursions:-)

3rd June 2013, 11:42 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	How wonderful! I love the things. Would be happier if the one I had weren't stolen, but still love them. Good luck to you. Your research and insights have been a great help to all of us collectors here at this little forum (and for all those who lurk).

6th June 2013, 12:23 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	I am afraid that I still take Turkish research, which is extremely biased, with a grain of salt. The blade form existed in the Balkans and the Mediterranean since antiquity, it does not exist in Central Asia at all, and yet we are to believe that 800 years ago a group of Turkmens moved to Asia Minor and "invented" the weapon. Not credible, sorry. Teodor

6th June 2013, 01:33 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, this is a very strong argument and I see a lot of truth in it.. Hopefully, this time around people might put aside their biases, listen to each other and , - jointly,- reach an historically- justifiable conclusion. As an aside: quite a lot of Afghani Salawar Yataghans have incurved blades. Whether this is a long-standing local tradition or an externally- adopted feature ( there were quite a lot of Ottoman mercenaries in the area) is an interesting question. The same applies to Afghani/Bukharan eared handles. As I said, we know precious little about the Turkmen/ Ottoman connections, and focussed research efforts are to be saluted.

6th June 2013, 11:56 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	+100

24th February 2016, 04:27 PM	#6
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Dr. Ann, Just wondering if there is an update to this work. Best regards, Emanuel

24th February 2016, 05:14 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I went to the page and the last visit there was in July 2015.... I guess yataghans still defy scientific efforts and historical incursions:-)